A Can of Worms; Shot Placement win's every time

[The Singing Stalker]

My understanding is that long range shooting is done more in the states. And to be fair, those who have the capability to do can do it. Do you remember Dodgy knees on here who did a lot of long range goat shooting in NZ. He seemed (to me) to be a very clever shooter and I learnt a lot from his writing.
I also bought rifle from a bloke up Scotland way and he did culling out to 500 meters on a regular basis. He was using a large calibre and said at closer range the bullets didn’t deform and went straight through. It might have been a 357 of similiar, I can’t remember now.
So, I don’t have issues with lang range shooting, provided you know what you are doing. I know I don’t, so I don’t do it.

 

[Mungo]

It was still moving, and I generally don't like letting game suffer if it can be avoided. Insurance I suppose you could call it also.

So a target that is 1MOA across, at most, that’s bobbing about at 540m?

I think that’s a very low percentage shot.

 

[25 Sharps]

Cool opinion , you're entitled to it. Doesn't bother me.

As you are to yours

 

[devon deer stalker]

I suppose that's a possibility, but my method is shared by friends and government contract hunters who kill thousands of deer and elk, so possibly not?

Care to expand in what state this happens?
Tags are limited per hunter?
There are on rare occasions additional tags issued to hunters, these are called shoulder seasons.
But I've never heard of government contractors that kill 1000's of deer and elk, and what happens to the meat?

 

[coldboremiracle]

Care to expand in what state this happens?
Tags are limited per hunter?
There are on rare occasions additional tags issued to hunters, these are called shoulder seasons.
But I've never heard of government contractors that kill 1000's of deer and elk, and what happens to the meat?

These were culling operations, the meat is processed and donated.

 

[devon deer stalker]

These were culling operations, the meat is processed and donated.

Where?

I donated the bulk of my meat to food banks, but some I gave to my American friends.

 

[260madman]

Bullets matter more than headstamps. HPs aren’t the most reliable for expansion and then you’re relying on them tumbling to create wounds.

No hollow points for me. Pointy plastic tips, please.

 

[75]

Silly click-bait title.

Lot's of common sense trying to be said in a controversial way. Bizarre.

No idea why "shot placement wins every time" is a can of worms. No one is going to argue a gut shot with a .338 is better then a perfectly placed .223 - especially when you factor in all the caveats you have in your article.

In the case you are talking about, the shot between the eyes was a coup de gras. The bull had been shot through the lungs already seconds prior. The head shot was to finish the deed.

This young bull took a 175 Sierra Match King between the eyes at 540 yards,

So your article is deliberately misleading?

 

[hoodwink]

Firstly - if I see a deer and am under instructions to reduce numbers, it's getting shot. It doesn't matter of its 30 yards or 300 yards. It's a deer down and then take whatever is walking next to it.

Secondly - i can tell if I've had a clean miss by the sound the bullet makes on impact. I can also tell by the fact at 400 yards, the rifle and settled down again given i practise under said condition and recoil control is part of that practise. I can see an impact at a hundred yards or again, 300 +. Deer reactions tell a hell of a lot too.

Having said that, I've not actually missed at 400. Ive missed at 60 and ive missed at 100, not anything out at range though. Its always been a satisfying thud and drop.

So your under instruction to reduce numbers, as i interpret that means you are happy to take a higher risk of injuring an animal…
As for always hearing if you hit or missed and shot reaction at 400meters, sometimes yes often no. Yes you maybe able to see the bullet strike i would certainly expect to but again not allways.
Deer reaction how many times have you shot a deer to see no reaction for it then take two steps and fall dead. Quite often with Copper i would think.
So you haven’t missed at 400 well thats great, why promote it, does that make you a great stalker, is it something you should say to pass on to other stalkers? To what end ‘Ego’ perchance.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

So your under instruction to reduce numbers, as i interpret that means you are happy to take a higher risk of injuring an animal…
As for always hearing if you hit or missed and shot reaction at 400meters, sometimes yes often no. Yes you maybe able to see the bullet strike i would certainly expect to but again not allways.
Deer reaction how many times have you shot a deer to see no reaction for it then take two steps and fall dead. Quite often with Copper i would think.
So you haven’t missed at 400 well thats great, why promote it, does that make you a great stalker, is it something you should say to pass on to other stalkers? To what end ‘Ego’ perchance.

All ill say, learn to shoot at that distance and then get proficient at it.

No higher risk whatsoever. The reality is its lower risk as the animal isnt on to you and you can take your dear sweet time setting up.

If I can consistently hit a 4 inch target at 400 yards using only the kit I stalk with, wheres the issue?
When I shoot deer they tend to have a habit of falling over in the spot so that little argument of yours is irrelevant straight away ive lost deer and injured deer yes, always under 150 though and ive always made dam sure im searching on my hands and knees and with the dog in a bid to locate it.

Again, the rest i fall back on learning to actually shoot your rifle + cartridge combination which will see you soon realising its designed to kill far far beyond your 100 yard limit.

 

[hoodwink]

All ill say, learn to shoot at that distance and then get proficient at it.

No higher risk whatsoever. The reality is its lower risk as the animal isnt on to you and you can take your dear sweet time setting up.

If I can consistently hit a 4 inch target at 400 yards using only the kit I stalk with, wheres the issue?
When I shoot deer they tend to have a habit of falling over in the spot so that little argument of yours is irrelevant straight away ive lost deer and injured deer yes, always under 150 though and ive always made dam sure im searching on my hands and knees and with the dog in a bid to locate it.

Again, the rest i fall back on learning to actually shoot your rifle + cartridge combination which will see you soon realising its designed to kill far far beyond your 100 yard limit.

You write as though you know how I shoot.
That I know you don’t.
What I can do and don’t do is for me.
I’m not say ‘you’ shouldn’t. I don’t know you or how well you shoot.
You may be better.
What I do totally disagree with is promoting shooting at distance, a lot of people think they can but when I got experience I realise a lot more stalkers think they can but reality says they can’t. I remember being in that bracket.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

You write as though you know how I shoot.
That I know you don’t.
What I can do and don’t do is for me.
I’m not say ‘you’ shouldn’t. I don’t know you or how well you shoot.
You may be better.
What I do totally disagree with is promoting shooting at distance, a lot of people think they can but when I got experience I realise a lot more stalkers think they can but reality says they can’t. I remember being in that bracket.

Completely understand and I'll vouch that a lot of trigger time and load development goes on to be able to get that first round impact from a cold barrel and when the shooter isn’t warmed up.

As on Backfire on YouTube, it really isn't for everyone and there is a lot of time and effort goes in to it. I'll throw my hands up to that thinking you were having a 'dig' when it's clear now you probably weren't. My apologies

 

[hoodwink]

Completely understand and I'll vouch that a lot of trigger time and load development goes on to be able to get that first round impact from a cold barrel and when the shooter isn’t warmed up.

As on Backfire on YouTube, it really isn't for everyone and there is a lot of time and effort goes in to it. I'll throw my hands up to that thinking you were having a 'dig' when it's clear now you probably weren't. My apologies

For me its more about the promotion of long range shooting and by the fact we are calling 400meters long range tells a story as in America 400 meters wouldn’t be long range, but if you watch a few well known hunting entrepreneurs from over the water, they make a bit of being sad at the lost or injured, but dont reduce their distances or methods of “culling” so buisness as usual. I dont wish that as a general idea for stalkers over here, we have a duty to promote good practice.
My thing is anti Ego, i dont like the idea of taking the biggest antlered animal or the most or the longest distance, just do it the best you can, treat the Animal as food and treat that the best you can, if you cant…. Practice or get training. You tube dont make a stalker.

 

[devon deer stalker]

These were culling operations, the meat is processed and donated.

Still waiting for an answer as to what state, so as none was forth coming I googled it, Big Rapids City, Michigan, and not 1000's all I could find is 75 deer in one year that were all within city limits, certainly not at challenging distances.

 

[260madman]

Still waiting for an answer as to what state, so as none was forth coming I googled it, Big Rapids City, Michigan, and not 1000's all I could find is 75 deer in one year that were all within city limits, certainly not at challenging distances.

Don’t believe everything Google tells you because you have to dig a little to come up with the correct answer and not what they want you to believe.

He is in Utah. The West is a funny area when it comes to wildlife. Hunters complain there aren’t enough deer and elk to hunt and numbers are low and then the .gov comes in and does culling operations on National Park land and the public is not invited.

If there’s hay fields you can rest assured that the state will give out tags to kill elk and deer. We stayed at a “ranch” in Colorado and they had tags for elk and were hunting them when we were there in August of 2023. Some big name celebrities were there the week prior to us arriving. I didn’t see any elk but did see a moose while we were there.

 

[webley701]

All ill say, learn to shoot at that distance and then get proficient at it.

No higher risk whatsoever. The reality is its lower risk as the animal isnt on to you and you can take your dear sweet time setting up.

If I can consistently hit a 4 inch target at 400 yards using only the kit I stalk with, wheres the issue?
When I shoot deer they tend to have a habit of falling over in the spot so that little argument of yours is irrelevant straight away ive lost deer and injured deer yes, always under 150 though and ive always made dam sure im searching on my hands and knees and with the dog in a bid to locate it.

Again, the rest i fall back on learning to actually shoot your rifle + cartridge combination which will see you soon realising its designed to kill far far beyond your 100 yard limit.

Just for clarity, what is your precise definition of ‘consistently’?

 

[John Gryphon]

The word 'stalking' escapes many and that is the solution to most occasions presented.
Stalking in as close as possible increases the chances of 'best result' no matter what the calibre.
Learn how to stalk and shoot closer and more comfortably.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Just for clarity, what is your precise definition of ‘consistently’?

10/10 (weather dependent with wind obviously), if conditions aren't right then I won't do it, simple as. Also worth mentioning that includes cold, clean bore. Swirling winds, strong winds 20-30mph+, over valleys where winds unpredictable - not worth it unless i happen to be shooting steel and something comes out and stands next to the gong which has happened surprisingly.

Any doubt - dont shoot. Get closer. If you can't, reasses and either change stalk plan or leave said deer.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

The word 'stalking' escapes many and that is the solution to most occasions presented.
Stalking in as close as possible increases the chances of 'best result' no matter what the calibre.
Learn how to stalk and shoot closer and more comfortably.

I love a good stalk and getting up close and personal. Can't beat the rush of you and dog being yards from a deer. However, sometimes deer need shooting in numbers and its not feasible to stalk like that all the time. I could stalk in to a single deer to 20 yards or I could shoot half the group starting at 150 out to 300+

 

[Sol]

Too be honest maybe I'm weird on this aspect but I dont really mind the people that shoot long distances I would never do it, Its not for me I dont even shoot out too 200.

I think Its incredibly easy for us to Armchair Judge people and there hunting methods when we live in a place that In all reality Is very easy to stalk into deer there Is almost always some sort of environmental break for us too get closer, If we went over too the US and were presented with a 400 yard shot on a pronghorn on completely flat ground (no breaks at all) would many of us take it? No, on the other end most Americans would consider 400 yards on a pronghorn an absolute dream because there eyesight Is notoriously good and getting even that close Is impressive In its own right.

Muley on a ridge? Just like our reds, quite a lot of there deer like being high up too get out of the warm weather attempting to get closer actually nullifies even seeing the animal with the lay of the land, sometimes 300 yards Is the sensible option.

Whilst some Americans are horrible shots there seasons are short and there tags are low In most scenarios, any opportunity, any shot, and any potential harvest have too be on the money If they dont there freezer Is empty and there tagged out with nothing too show from it.

Truthfully us brits are absolutely spoiled In our opportunities regarding deer shooting both England and Scotland have year round deer shooting across various species, with zero harvest requirements or harvest restrictions Its totally unlimited besides our long drawn out seasons the rest of the world will never think like us because pretty much no where has as easy shooting as us and there's nothing wrong with that.