An American perspective.

[Taff]

Well reading your tales of woe, I am glad I moved here, things have got harder in the FAC dept, but if you fill in the forms and wait it’s all sorted and away you go, no stupid DSC, limits on ammo, guns owned by you, you can borrow a rifle without registering it for a month.
At our collectors meeting last month ( yes we can own any firearms on a collectors license) a ex para brought his recently purchased L7A2, and gave a great talk on its use during the Falklands war.
The problem has always been the same in the UK, when I started shooting deer in 79, notice I did not use the term stalking, there was the same pompous, deer are precious attitude that is held by many today.
This is what puts many off or prevents new entries to shooting. During my time, I met many landowners through hunting with hounds, which many on here regard as a pompous lot, but actually were far more receptive to new entrants than deer stalkers.
I travelled the whole of the country, digging foxes, shooting everything that moved, when asked what I did for a living and said I drove tractors, not one looked down on me, they took you for what you were.
During my time I took many people out (stalking) even one or two off here and never charged a penny, met four men (that sounds bad) on a hill in mid Wales, and invited them down to Hampshire to hunt some foxes and shoot some deer.
Forty turned up, with a pack of beagles, we fed them all on venison, over the next 15 yrs, twice a year, many brought there kids / grandkids, all working class (easiest way to describe us) many now shoot deer/boar etc.
So why the long post, don’t moan about no new entrants, do your bit, give up your time Foc, it may even cost you money, be open to newcomers who will make mistakes, and don,t rely on the likes of BASC,GC etc who in my opinion have only helped put more restrictions in the way of the average man. Rant over

 

[GBR66]

Otter hunting?
Are you sure it’s legal? I couldn’t get a permit to have a dead one stuffed. Mink hunting and trapping is not an issue with the bounty now E25

Apologies - quite right, hunting "exemption" removed some years ago

 

[Confidis]

whilst I agree that we need to try and normalise field sports in general I think its an increasingly difficult thing in this woke virtue signalling day and age , that said ive managed to get 5 lads their fac in the last 3 years by giving them land to go on

Land to shoot is the key .

 

[Chris Richardson]

Land to shoot is the key .

I agree that being said I see a lot of lads saying “ oh I’d love land to shoot on “ I invited 5 lads over for a collaborative cull day on roe yesterday, 2 showed up , yet they want their own large acreages to shoot on ………..

 

[Confidis]

I agree that being said I see a lot of lads saying “ oh I’d love land to shoot on “ I invited 5 lads over for a collaborative cull day on roe yesterday, 2 showed up , yet they want their own large acreages to shoot on ………..

True I gained a permission and have worked my arse off on it for over ten years. Many people want to have a go . I wanted to hunt for many years before I got the opportunity and did find it a closed shop from the outside.

 

[Chris Richardson]

True I gained a permission and have worked my arse off on it for over ten years. Many people want to have a go . I wanted to hunt for many years before I got the opportunity and did find it a closed shop from the outside.

I’ve found there’s those that do it and those that play at it “ instagram stalkers” I call them lots of the latter around , the former not so much

 

[Dunwaters]

Land to shoot is the key .

Important, but it goes hand in hand with spare time, spare cash and your own transport.

Looking at the American experience, the least effective way to recruit new people is to concentrate on kids, they have no money of their own and they can only go wherever their parents take them. If their parents are involved in shooting, the kids are highly likely to be involved too, if not, you’re wasting both your time and money because the kids can’t get out on their own.
College students are the best bet, they’re on the way to becoming independent. The field to fork movement is already established and it’s well worth the effort to expand “ foraging” into hunting. The ladies are worth cultivating, fully half the new dog handlers I see at trials are female, quite a few of them have taken the step of getting their own gun.
Whatever we decide to do, we need to get a wiggle on, if things continue their current trajectory, we’ll mostly be gone in 20 years or less.
No legislation required, just the old guard fading out and no new recruits to take over.

 

[Mike1979]

I agree that being said I see a lot of lads saying “ oh I’d love land to shoot on “ I invited 5 lads over for a collaborative cull day on roe yesterday, 2 showed up , yet they want their own large acreages to shoot on ………..

Thats a poor show. I think the actual effort of doing something seems to be where it all goes wrong..thinking about it is easy

 

[Pine Marten]

Important, but it goes hand in hand with spare time, spare cash and your own transport.

Looking at the American experience, the least effective way to recruit new people is to concentrate on kids, they have no money of their own and they can only go wherever their parents take them. If their parents are involved in shooting, the kids are highly likely to be involved too, if not, you’re wasting both your time and money because the kids can’t get out on their own.
College students are the best bet, they’re on the way to becoming independent. The field to fork movement is already established and it’s well worth the effort to expand “ foraging” into hunting. The ladies are worth cultivating, fully half the new dog handlers I see at trials are female, quite a few of them have taken the step of getting their own gun.
Whatever we decide to do, we need to get a wiggle on, if things continue their current trajectory, we’ll mostly be gone in 20 years or less.
No legislation required, just the old guard fading out and no new recruits to take over.

This was my experience as a city kid who wanted to hunt. I had no transport, no money, my parents were supportive but they weren't involved in fieldsports and didn't know anyone else who was either. I bought books and magazines (this was in the 90s, pre-widespread internet) which advised approaching local farmers and going beating. None of these ways in were possible. At university I joined the shooting club, which was almost all target rifle but we persuaded them to do a few clay shoots which were a massive faff, having to take the student union bus for hours out to Kent. That club doesn't exist anymore so not an available way in. Anyway in the end, it took me decades to get in.

BUT. I now do have a shooting home, it's a long way away and a big commitment, but I am now on my 4th season of taking YPM (my 12 year old) with me. I've taken my niece, my godson, my friend's son has asked to come with me, and a dad from the children's nursery, I hide nothing, don't tell them to keep it secret, it has all been positive. Also some of those friends from the university shooting club come shooting with me once an year and are themselves making inroads into wildfowling, deerstalking, fishing etc.

So some numbers: stemming from just me being an urban weirdo, I have 5 people the same age as me who are into fieldsports in a low key but stable way. Next generation, 4 children who have or want to come with me. I always give them game if I have any, show/tell them how to prepare and cook it, and if their families eat it, then they're onside too. I now make that at least half a dozen urban families onside, and that's something like 20 people of all ages at least, starting from just me.

Not everyone is actively onside. But I can only think of one adult who is genuinely opposed, and one child who isn't in principle but just can't deal with killing which is absolutely fine and understandable.

And also know people who grew up in shooting environments and families who just don't really care.

Just show people. Bring them along if they want too. Feed them game. Do it out in the open. That's how.

 

[Apthorpe]

Maybe you British should look to Norway? Out of our population of around 5 million, we have about 500.000 registered hunters, that is people who have passed the hunters exam, because they want to hunt. Not all of them hunt every year, but around 200.000 of them actually hunted last year. Hunting has a very high popular acceptance here with us. We dont have any political party with "stop hunting " on their program. Even our Green Party (MDG) says with a shy smile that, "no we are not opposed to hunting, but we will restrict hunting in some of our national parks". Even though I guess they hate our guts, but they dont dare say so. If you think about it, every 10th Norwegian male, female, child, toddler or old person in nursery homes, is a hunter. If one looks in to the demographic, it mean that about every 3. Norwegian voter is or want to be a hunter. It takes a very courageous politician to want to alienate them. Do you know any courageous politicians? Neither do I. All this is because hunting is accessible for all. Wether you drive a bus or run a Fortune 500 company, there will be hunting available that you can afford. No elitism. At the shooting range I frekvent for training I meet mostly working guys who show up in their working clothes, some bringing a kid or two along. And having fun. Make hunting popular and accessible, and no politician would want to anger you...

That works great in a country of 5 million people..it doesn't work so well when there are 70 plus million in a much smaller area. There isn't enough.space in the UK.
Aside from that, Norway is a well run and cohesive country and social democracy is about as left as it gets.. The UK has had a long history of divisive socialism and radical leftwing lunacy which permeates every layer of every institution.

 

[Dunwaters]

That works great in a country of 5 million people..it doesn't work so well when there are 70 plus million in a much smaller area. There isn't enough.space in the UK.

You were doing so well, right up to here.

Aside from that, Norway is a well run and cohesive country and social democracy is about as left as it gets.. The UK has had a long history of divisive socialism and radical leftwing lunacy which permeates every layer of every institution.

Your political history is solidly right wing, expansionist, conservative and capitalist.
You have taken, by force, continents and handed stolen territories to private individuals and companies.
You have used plundered wealth to build and maintain an empire, which you have only recently relinquished.
Divisive socialism my ass.
Most of your migrant issues are as a direct result of your history of expansion, invasion and domination.

 

[MarinePMI]

Yep. Socialism that controls the media....

 

[RescueMe0007]

Important, but it goes hand in hand with spare time, spare cash and your own transport.

Looking at the American experience, the least effective way to recruit new people is to concentrate on kids, they have no money of their own and they can only go wherever their parents take them. If their parents are involved in shooting, the kids are highly likely to be involved too, if not, you’re wasting both your time and money because the kids can’t get out on their own.
College students are the best bet, they’re on the way to becoming independent. The field to fork movement is already established and it’s well worth the effort to expand “ foraging” into hunting. The ladies are worth cultivating, fully half the new dog handlers I see at trials are female, quite a few of them have taken the step of getting their own gun.
Whatever we decide to do, we need to get a wiggle on, if things continue their current trajectory, we’ll mostly be gone in 20 years or less.
No legislation required, just the old guard fading out and no new recruits to take over.

I agree, all those elements are clearly essential, unless you live in an area that deer are plentiful and the landowners keen to see them reduced in number.

Unfortunately, I also think that it's a reflection of the times and modern technology. My son was quite keen on joining me stalking previously. More recently, between college, his par time employment and some new interests he hardly ever has time for an outing. Our sport commonly requires quite a bit of effort and engagement to accomplish, it's performed at unsocial hours and in inclement weather conditions on challenging terrain, quite a contrast to getting everything delivered to ones bedroom via the medium of the internet, which is so comfortable. Plus, its very unfashionable, as being the opposite of woke, liberal and climate aware (god help us). How we span the chasm, I have no idea.

 

[Mungo]

College students are the best bet, they’re on the way to becoming independent.

Exactly this.

Though I wouldn’t stop at them.

The 20-30 bracket is the one to aim at, regardless of whether they’re still in education or not. In fact, the ones already in employment are probably an even better target.

Recently independent, about to earn a real wage (or already doing so). No mortgage, no kids, loads of spare time. No sense of risk. Open minded and willing to try things. Tolerant of discomfort. Good eyesight. Good fitness.

All of that starts to erode in the late 20s-early 30s.

 

[John Gryphon]

14 year old boys want guns,tits and arse,give them all three and they will be under control lol.

 

[Apthorpe]

You were doing so well, right up to here.

Your political history is solidly right wing, expansionist, conservative and capitalist.
You have taken, by force, continents and handed stolen territories to private individuals and companies.
You have used plundered wealth to build and maintain an empire, which you have only recently relinquished.
Divisive socialism my ass.
Most of your migrant issues are as a direct result of your history of expansion, invasion and domination.

That's absolute drivel.

 

[Dunwaters]

That's absolute drivel.

Really?
You invaded Ireland and claimed it for your own.
Did you ever hear of Clive of India?
How about Cecil Rhodes?
British East Africa?
Your country has supported the wholesale privatisation and annexation of independent territories by force of arms for centuries.
You also claimed all of the continent of North America for yourselves until the residents of the southern portion rebelled and threw you out.
And you called me “ dumb “?

 

[Tim.243]

Really?
You invaded Ireland and claimed it for your own.
Did you ever hear of Clive of India?
How about Cecil Rhodes?
British East Africa?
Your country has supported the wholesale privatisation and annexation of independent territories by force of arms for centuries.
You also claimed all of the continent of North America for yourselves until the residents of the southern portion rebelled and threw you out.
And you called me “ dumb “?

This above has a touch of the "Fair Hill"

 

[MarinePMI]

 

[Dunwaters]

This above has a touch of the "Fair Hill"

Perhaps, but it is true.
There are episodes in the history of most nations that are not particularly pleasant to recall.
Britain has had a large footprint for a long time so has a few more skeletons in the cupboard than most other nations.
Some seem to have very selective memories, a very poor education or possibly both.