If you say so, out of curiosity what other carcinogenic substances do you knowingly choose to add to your diet where you could otherwise avoid them? #askingforafrien
Latest article on lead micro and nano particles in deer and grouse
- Thread starter Heym SR20
- Start date
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity, do you eat any dot of seafood, shellfish or tuna?
No i don't, neither do i drink or smoke, although I have in the past.
And no, I am still not advocating a ban on any of these things.
The only point i have put across is that adding lead (or any other poison) to our diet is potentially harmful.
Some think this is the same as advocating for a ban, i don think it is.
Some think that because they perceive the risk as low or because they cannot see any effects of lead consumption that its harmless.
I have merely pointed out that the evidence suggests that lead is not of any benefit to us in terms of consuming it. I accept that there are other sources of lead, many of which it is difficult if not impossible to avoid, if anyone wishes to consume it that is their business.
so why werent you fussed about feeding it to your family 12 months ago ?
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Just received some 250grn .458 monoflex...keen to give them a whirl to see how they do...not so much for the "great persecution" (well named), but more because I was stupid enough to fire a 325grn FTX while lying down. Nearly needed my collar bone dragging back from just above my ring piece. 1st shot on the bull, 2nd six inches off...I ascribe that to shooting while still weeping!I picked up 50 140gn Hornady mono flex bullets in preparation of the great persecution headed our way and full of anticipation got off to a bad start!
Using CFE 223 I loaded up 5.
Later at a safe location I shot them from a very stable rest and the group was MASSIVE!
Also at 35gn it clearly was to much powder.
The primers are flatter than a witches blouse!
I've never known a Winchester 94 in 3030 shoot well ringing it's neck so I went home and dropped the charge by 2gn and cleaned the barrel with an array of chemicals in preparation for the next day...
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Never shoot a thumper off the bench or lying down. Upright backs only!
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Sadly, while always trying to learn from the mistakes of others, without making them myself, occasionally you need to learn a few in person. Remarkable that rookie errors come so easily to me, even in my fifties!
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Some lads tried to catch me out at a range one day with I think a 375hh. They looked quite disappointed when I shot it off hand and it was nothing outrageous to shoot at all.
My friend fell for it though and sat down at a bench, ouch!
Spear Chucker Q "Remarkable that rookie errors come so easily to me, even in my fifties!" UQ
I prefer my Rookie mistakes to be classed as simple misunderstandings, the technology was difficult too understand, the sun was in my eyes....
Don't be too hard on your self SC. At 50 you're only a kid...plenty of time to master those tricky things that pop up in life.
I prefer my Rookie mistakes to be classed as simple misunderstandings, the technology was difficult too understand, the sun was in my eyes....
Don't be too hard on your self SC. At 50 you're only a kid...plenty of time to master those tricky things that pop up in life.
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Sounds like excellent advice to me. I'll have made three cock-ups before I leave the house this morning.Spear Chucker Q "Remarkable that rookie errors come so easily to me, even in my fifties!" UQ
I prefer my Rookie mistakes to be classed as simple misunderstandings, the technology was difficult too understand, the sun was in my eyes....
Don't be too hard on your self SC. At 50 you're only a kid...plenty of time to master those tricky things that pop up in life.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Some context, concerning health risk to the masses, neither copper nor lead should be the priority.
Copper has a tendency to shed velocity quickly and often refuses to open up as it should however this is obviously rectified somewhat by the likes of yew tree bullets that do work at low velocity. The downside is said bullets shed petals in various directions or the bullet fragments, causing the very same issue Heym keeps banging on about
Ahhh, now we're getting somewhere. So there is a safe limit?
when you say copper has a tendency to shed velocity. Do you mean that for any given calibre and the same mass, that a copper bullet will have different ballistic characteristics to a lead bullet of the same calibre purely becuase it is copper?
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Ballistic coefficients are a thing. In fact it is so much of a ‘thing’ that NatureScot decided to recommend that the minimum bullet weight for shooting red, sika and fallow deer be reduced from an already fairly marginal 100 grain by some 20%, in a bid to address the ‘CCCC’ (copper calibre coefficient conundrum). Welfare for the deer - clearly not a priority.
Last edited:
I also found that odd as I thought deer welfare is the number 1 priority , seems you can shift the goalposts when it suits ........
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Probably referring to the difference in mass? IE lead much heavier so for a given weight lead bullets are smaller and therefore less prone to drag an other factors?
It’s commonly recommended to go down a bullet weight when swapping lead free bullets, however lighter bullets don’t retain as much energy at range?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Ballistic coefficient in copper bullets tends to be considerably lower than their lead counterpart. With copper being lighter than lead, the bullets need to be longer to be the same weight.
A direct comparison is here -
Hornady 130g eldm - 1.31inch G70.279
Hornady 130g CX (copper) - 1.49inch, G70.246
Both 130g bullets, both with the same polymer tip, huge difference in ballistic coefficient and that subsequently translates to more drag. Add in the copper is harder naturally and you've created a bullet that will perform at a couple hundred yards but because of the 2200fps ish minimum expansion, much further past that and it will pencil through the animal.
Again, some bullets now expand down to 1800fps if not a bit lower but these bullets tend to shed petals everywhere or fragment on impact which is apparently bad for ingestion
Similar threads
