Paperless Firearms Licensing Process - Impact on older applicants.
- Thread starter Foxyboy43
- Start date
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Yes as did my 93 years old MiL. But this is not about her and others who are IT literate and have access to it - rather it is those who are less fortunate….
I only alluded to the over 60s - this is an extract from only one of many organisations incl. govt. which quote 1/3rd or thereabouts for that group.
Oddly enough 1/3rd of NI FAC holders are over 60 as can be seen from this copied part response to my FOI email. I do not know how many FACs/Shotgun Licences are currently held in GB (we only have FACs for everything) but if you apply the same percentages that must amount to quite a few tens of thousands…
Smallholder
Well-Known Member
Sadly they can and certainly have done this side of the Irish Sea.
I don't know if the disability laws are different in NI but I also saw the BASC update and understand this would break the law in England. My uneducated view of your original post was that your force knows it's discriminatory otherwise they would have disclosed their legal advice. Unless someone takes the matter to court then you're stuck.
I'm very IT literate, in fact I have written similar software to the online forms. I also look after an elderly relative who is fairly IT literate but would not cope with the online forms I had to use, so I would say it is discriminatory. My relative does use online shopping for example but because of her health, poor internet and mobile phone connectivity she will take several days to sort out a simple order.
So, if they want everyone to use the online service I think it needs to be greatly improved, providing a save option is a must, not requiring the same info to be added time and time again and also sorting out their drop down menus to list common things such as underlever or pump action - such missing details can confuse those not used to online forms. The government also needs to sort out the many people who don't have usable internet before they force everyone online.
Having said all that if the online system is improved I would prefer to use it and will happily help people use it who might struggle.
NoIDeer
Well-Known Member
If the police had a little common sense they would create an online system for renewals with a fully populated form including what you hold, can hold, criminal record, medical declaration...
All you would have to do is confirm the details, apply for additions and removals, approve a binding document and give permission for your medical record to be probed.
New applications wouldn't need to be overly difficult too.
Most people I know can shop on amazon, firearms licencing doesn't need to be anymore complicated. Both end up with a legally binding contract and the supplier knowing more about you than you do .
I don't think the issue is whether or not old people can do online firearms licence applications/renewals, it's not easy for for the most IT literate person. The issue is the apparently deliberately difficult process.
All you would have to do is confirm the details, apply for additions and removals, approve a binding document and give permission for your medical record to be probed.
New applications wouldn't need to be overly difficult too.
Most people I know can shop on amazon, firearms licencing doesn't need to be anymore complicated. Both end up with a legally binding contract and the supplier knowing more about you than you do .
I don't think the issue is whether or not old people can do online firearms licence applications/renewals, it's not easy for for the most IT literate person. The issue is the apparently deliberately difficult process.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
I like the idea of my FAC and variations being available on Amazon, as I subscribe to Prime so I’d get it the next day! Seriously though, there are enough smart platforms and now AI to send the IT wary a pre populated form. The Home Office just needs to prioritise it. But because we are not a problem as a group, the law abiding FAC community remain in the intray. Could shooting organisations offer online form filling assistance to their members and not just advice?
Scotty99
Well-Known Member
I agree, a lot of people over a certain age may not be computer literate and my struggle with online applications for grant, renewal and variations. The system is not easy to use even for people who are reasonably tech savvy. I’m 72 and always use the online system and find it reasonably straight forward to use, but I have spent 42 years working in the tech industry. Given we have a close(ish) network of like minded souls on this forum maybe we should create a network of tech aware advisors, to help those older stalkers who are without tech skills and no access to to a computer to get it done. Anyone with a laptop or tablet could pop round and help them through the process.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Scotty99
Well-Known Member
I agree having a save option is a must. The process takes a while and you need to have all of your info at hand. It’s probably the lack of a save function that puts the non tech savvy folks off doing it.
In addition to all that has been said above, the software should emulate the sequence we all know when using a comparison site to get quotes for home insurance:
After completing all fields, the licensee should be presented with the sum of all their data entries on a single scrollable page for double checking.
On renewal, the form should be prepopulated with all applicant's known personal details and firearms. However, if it is FLD policy to not prepopulate fields with serial numbers , then this final check page MUST flash up any discrepancy between existing records and current application before applicant presses "submit". [there will be significant user and FLD time wasted if a simple mechanism to eliminate typos at this stage is left out and process stalls as a result]
This is also an issue for rfd’s, I did a one on one off for a shotgun a couple of weeks back and it took forever to do the ‘paperwork’ due to the system being completely counterintuitive and the dealer struggling through it. Then me walking round his car park trying to get mobile signal so I could receive the email to confirm the variation on the firearms portal
So would I, but I see very little evidence to support the idea that this has made things a lot more efficient. In fact, the Police/Home Office appear to think it's made them 100% less efficient, given the service standards they've altered.
Morkai
Well-Known Member
No need to transfer it.
Take it on your phone, resize it on your phone, email it from your phone.
A good way to reduce the file size on a phone is to just screenshot the photo, it'll be a fraction of the filesize.
I agree. There is no good reason whatsoever why variations need take more than 24 hrs.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
The who process needs a rethink, firearms licensing administration could learn lessons from the banking industry and also the DVLA, simply substituting a paper form with an online one is just a sham. (age-over 60!)From a process design perspective, the mistake they have made is to try and replicate the paper system online. Design it from scratch, including referencing information they already have about you and they would get something fit for purpose. I still think it’s strange they ask you for information they already hold in other systems or even their own. Like sending me a form to my home address asking me to fill in my home address…
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
My sister is 84 and has a house phone that's it, 100% tech illiterate she has to ask others every time if she needs anything done.
My partner 79 has learnt to use whatsapp on her smartphone and German Gumtree but has never used a pc and I do everything.
My partner 79 has learnt to use whatsapp on her smartphone and German Gumtree but has never used a pc and I do everything.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
And so it continues to rumble on - even the Beeb have picked it up….
'The online system for a gun licence is just too hard to use' Digital gun licence system in NI 'too difficult' for elderly
'The online system for a gun licence is just too hard to use' Digital gun licence system in NI 'too difficult' for elderly
Similar threads
