Shooting while pregnant - BASC guidance

[nocturnaldave]

When you read it and then summarise it in your own words you will no doubt end up with the continually repeated phrase of “seek medical guidance from your Dr or other health professional!” Bet the pregnant women out there would never have thought of that themselves…. I’d be keen to see what the actual/real costs were behind this project.

 

[chriswjx]

I just had a quick Google…..
Current medical advice is to avoid noise (when pregnant) over 115dba.
Therefore moderated firearms would be fine?

The BASC article references firearms producing noise of 140dba, this is incorrect if a moderator is used.

Interested to know where all these numbers come from...

Did my own Google, and have an unmoderated 308 claimed to be in excess of 160db. Lowest values range from 150db+ like here (Suppressor Project: .308 Rifle Measured)

According to here - Moderator test chart - the best of 2021 could reduce noise by 30 (ish) dB.

All of that would put a moderated rifle above 115db.

To say as well, vast majority of shotguns aren't moderated either.

Note: not going to comment on the sensibility of the advisory. Although would say that Conor probably could have saved himself some bother posting this on here Aside from JockStalk's very accurate observation of the sizes in some recent Classifieds, I think the SD is probably the furthest from the target audience for this bit of "news"

 

[sh1kar]

Evaluation of fetal exposure to external loud noise using a sheep model: quantification of in utero acoustic transmission across the human audio range - PMC

There is mounting evidence that neural memory traces are formed by auditory learning in utero and that premature newborns are particularly sensitive to the intense, sustained noises or impulses sounds associated with the use of intensive care ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[timbrayford]

Interested to know where all these numbers come from...

Did my own Google, and have an unmoderated 308 claimed to be in excess of 160db. Lowest values range from 150db+ like here (Suppressor Project: .308 Rifle Measured)

According to here - Moderator test chart - the best of 2021 could reduce noise by 30 (ish) dB.

All of that would put a moderated rifle above 115db.

To say as well, vast majority of shotguns aren't moderated either.

Note: not going to comment on the sensibility of the advisory. Although would say that Conor probably could have saved himself some bother posting this on here Aside from JockStalk's very accurate observation of the sizes in some recent Classifieds, I think the SD is probably the furthest from the target audience for this bit of "news"

Oh but we are very much the target audience , pregnancy is but a pretext to expound a political point of view.

 

[nocturnaldave]

Eagerly awaiting the sequel… . Menopausal advice to women and shooting”.

 

[Tagoat]

Does anyone know where a cammo pram or pushchair can be purchased please?

 

[Tagoat]

Eagerly awaiting the sequel… . Menopausal advice to women and shooting”.

Perhaps it is the male of the species who will require advice on this subject?

 

[nocturnaldave]

Currently I’m that fella!

 

[finnbear270]

Training course ?How to employ a deer cart in the event of waters breaking?

 

[gixer1]

I look forward to the advisory coming out for “Patting the species you just shot on the head and saying “thank you for your sacrifice” coming out….

Along with the building trade’s advisory for pregnant roofers, and utilities people dealing with pipes etc. etc etc…..

 

[Woodenbeam]

Yet again the British anti shooting clods demonstrate themselves as a foreword thinking bunch

 

[Sol]

I dont really see the issue about this If the fetus can start detecting noise at 14 weeks, If your a commercial deer stalker or an avid pheasant shooter It probably is something too consider.

I dont think Its wrong too point out lead being toxic too Infants and newborns(errr unborns?) There incredibly sensitive, I'm under the same club of lead exposure In shooting is pretty much miniscule effects too an adult, however a little kiddy? I wont deny that there very sensitive to lead I dont think that's stupid too say.

 

[andyk]

I’m not going to pick on any particular post but to respond to those saying they don’t see the issue, my concern (criticism) is that this is overly negative and, if summarised, is saying pregnant women shouldn’t go shooting.

Given BASC is meant to exist to promote shooting, the publication of any guidance that tells people not to do it, or to give up (even temporarily) is odd. In my view (as a member) BASC should only do that if there is the strongest evidence to support doing so.

I did a bit of Google research on the train yesterday (I know!) and that suggests evidence is far from unanimous that loud noises are a problem. I couldn’t, for example, find advice saying pregnant women shouldn’t attend concerts - which have left my hearing feeing far worse than shooting ever has.

On the lead point, like it or not lead is a necessity for shooting sports. Even if it can be removed from shot/bullets it’s still a component in primers, with no particularly viable alternatives available. Endorsing a view that lead from primers is a risk in pregnancy invites a suggestion that it’s also a risk to children - hence safety requires that under 18 are banned from shooting, from ranges and clay grounds. It may be well meaning but lacks any forethought.

I also looked up what British Cycling recommend for pregnant women. While they (of course) recommended a level of care, their approach is to encourage women to find a way to keep doing what they enjoy.

I’m not saying BASC should be criticised for considering this, but I do think this guidance could be approached from the perspective of what a woman might consider doing to allow her to keep shooting - not to essentially say ‘best not risk it’.

 

[Scotty99]

I just had a quick Google…..
Current medical advice is to avoid noise (when pregnant) over 115dba.
Therefore moderated firearms would be fine?

The BASC article references firearms producing noise of 140dba, this is incorrect if a moderator is used.

Just googled shotgun decibel level and it lists a 12 gauge as being between 155db and 160db the difference being the load used. At this level it would be harmful to foetuses. I guess BASC are coming at it from the use of shotguns on game shoots and possibly game shoots with large bags and therefore a high number of shots, which seems to be BASC’s main focus when it refers to “shooting”. Stalking, Wildfowling and Vermin control don’t feature as strongly.

 

[TringSaint]

Call me suspicious but there seem to be a lot of references to dangers of lead on the piece. Yes lead IS something to avoid as a pregnant woman but I’m just wondering if there is some underlying motivation behind this ‘out of the blue’ guidance.

Indeed - not entirely sure how much lead I come into contact with when shooting, esp as most of it ends up in / going through an animal

 

[User00056]

Lady Shotgun/FAC holders number at 6% of the total in England and Wales alone, (not sure how that then changes if Scotland is also taken into consideration), but if one can then identify what percentage of an already small number are likely to be pregnant it does make me question quite what value BASC expect this to bring to anybody

 

[timbrayford]

Just googled shotgun decibel level and it lists a 12 gauge as being between 155db and 160db the difference being the load used. At this level it would be harmful to foetuses. I guess BASC are coming at it from the use of shotguns on game shoots and possibly game shoots with large bags and therefore a high number of shots, which seems to be BASC’s main focus when it refers to “shooting”. Stalking, Wildfowling and Vermin control don’t feature as strongly.

Steel shot loads certainly appear to feature with high noise/velocity, at least with lead there are lower noise options. I'm not quite sure how the wider shooting community is going to benefit from mud slinging from within, do BASC need to have a serious rethink about what they are putting out on social media, and the consequences thereof?

 

[jb1]

Sound traveling from air through liquid ie a womb, looses a large amount of its of energy due to the increased density of liquid. No how much i dont know, or cant remember its been a long time since i was in a womb, but what i do remember is when underwater at the swimming baths i cant hear anyone shouting at me "your time is up"

By al means raise awareness but does it need to be at the forefront of shooting related issues, surly there are more important issues facing our sport ?
maybe not ?

 

[JockStalk]

I think I may have been ungenerous earlier and have reflected this is perhaps a positive step from BASC. So glad I’ve just renewed.

By putting this in writing, BASC are cutting straight through to the 6% of aforementioned female shooters. When we consider the subset of those of child bearing age, and those who don’t use moderators or hearing protection and in consequence are that sub-sub-set of hearing impaired, child bearing age and currently pregnant female shooters.

In that regard, the message is spot on for the demographic and delivery in writing seems apposite.

I’d add that my experience of the fair sex is not that they are hard of hearing.

Just hard of listening.

 

[opticron1]

Just hard of listening.

Brave........but ultimately painful - especially after I'd told Mrs O !