17HMR woes

[Donnington]

here you go buddy.

View attachment 448598

Thank you mate. Look a bit deeper than mine so I’m buying into the firing pin theory. Also…can clearly see your OCD in the way you load every round with the stamp the ‘right way’ up!

 

[One on top of two]

Thank you mate. Look a bit deeper than mine so I’m buying into the firing pin theory. Also…can clearly see your OCD in the way you load every round with the stamp the ‘right way’ up!

Tell me about it , it never gives me a day off either

 

[Lone wolf]

Tell me about it , it never gives me a day off either

Fixed that for you mate

 

[One on top of two]

Fixed that for you mate
View attachment 448620

Very good

Ive never noticed it before but just pulled some more empties out the bin ... yep all the same

 

[Smellydog]

Fixed that for you mate
View attachment 448620

Joking aside one can clearly see how the case has gripped the chamber wall at peak pressure as it should but there is some headspace that the unsupported head has blown out to.
Thus, the firing pin indentation is not a fair representation of what it is doing before ignition.
The obvious headspace could also be robbing some firing pin stroke!
The headspace is not an issue, my 457 is the same, however, there could be room for an increase in firing pin stroke.

 

[Druid]

Joking aside one can clearly see how the case has gripped the chamber wall at peak pressure as it should but there is some headspace that the unsupported head has blown out to.
Thus, the firing pin indentation is not a fair representation of what it is doing before ignition.
The obvious headspace could also be robbing some firing pin stroke!
The headspace is not an issue, my 457 is the same, however, there could be room for an increase in firing pin stroke.

As an aside this post shows the importance of correct terminology.
Smellydogs post shows exactly why we shouldn’t call bullets heads.
Anyway, back to the thread..

 

[SimpleSimon]

Not related to the OPs problem really, but just speaking of HMR ammo issues in general. I've put hundreds through mine with no issue other than some split case necks after firing. Opened a new (old, but sealed) box the other day and within the first 10 rounds experienced a slow-burn and then a squib that stuck the bullet in the barrel.
I won't be using any more from that box, and I'll go through the rest of my supply. Any more from that batch is getting pulled apart and binned as well

 

[Smellydog]

Not related to the OPs problem really, but just speaking of HMR ammo issues in general. I've put hundreds through mine with no issue other than some split case necks after firing. Opened a new (old, but sealed) box the other day and within the first 10 rounds experienced a slow-burn and then a squib that stuck the bullet in the barrel.
I won't be using any more from that box, and I'll go through the rest of my supply. Any more from that batch is getting pulled apart and binned as well

The older rounds had different powder that was very dependent on a crimp.
If you inspect the old ammo with a magnifying glass you will see split necks, discard them. The rest will be fine.
See picture.
Newer ammo has a different powder and seems to ignite easier so not reliant on a crimp.

 

[Donnington]

here you go buddy.

View attachment 448598

I stripped the bolt and gave it a good clean. Decided not to remove any material from the bolt stop as didn’t want to void the warranty.

@One on top of two could you send me a pick of your bolt, in the ‘fired’ position so I can see the firing pin?

Here is mine - you can see it stops just flush of the bolt face. Wonder if yours protrudes a bit more?

 

[Smellydog]

I stripped the bolt and gave it a good clean. Decided not to remove any material from the bolt stop as didn’t want to void the warranty.

@One on top of two could you send me a pick of your bolt, in the ‘fired’ position so I can see the firing pin?

Here is mine - you can see it stops just flush of the bolt face. Wonder if yours protrudes a bit more?

Who the hell told you to remove material from the bolt stop? Idiot.

 

[Smellydog]

I stripped the bolt and gave it a good clean. Decided not to remove any material from the bolt stop as didn’t want to void the warranty.

@One on top of two could you send me a pick of your bolt, in the ‘fired’ position so I can see the firing pin?

Here is mine - you can see it stops just flush of the bolt face. Wonder if yours protrudes a bit more?

The firing pin it out enough. You need to measure headspace next.

 

[Smellydog]

 

[jb1]

I thought RF were a load and shoot rifle. It sounds more like CF land chasing and 0.01 grain counting. Mine didn't shoot due to ammo being rubbish do I sold it. Job sorted. Machining bolts and stuff whats it all about ?

 

[Smellydog]

I thought RF were a load and shoot rifle. It sounds more like CF land chasing and 0.01 grain counting. Mine didn't shoot due to ammo being rubbish do I sold it. Job sorted. Machining bolts and stuff whats it all about ?

With a rimfire you are at the mercy of the producer. If they sent the bolt out adjusted wrong.....
Most rimfire bolts are two piece. That allows some adjustment at the factory. It's also good for anyone that ends up with what some would dismiss and call it a " lemon" because someone else sees it as an easy fix and gets a bargain.

That reminds of decades ago a mate shot an old vostock 22 that amazingly was very accurate but ammo fussy.
We shot hundreds of rabbits one one estate using Winchester Lazer back then and they were quite powerful. His bolt was the only lock up on that rifle and it wore loose. Increased headspace and caused misfires and terrible accuracy and a burst case head.
He fixed it easy. A blob of Tig and grind and the old risky was back to form in no time.

Intrigued as to why you don't think center fires are not also " a load and shoot " rifle?

 

[Liveonce]

The older rounds had different powder that was very dependent on a crimp.
If you inspect the old ammo with a magnifying glass you will see split necks, discard them. The rest will be fine.
See picture.View attachment 448656
Newer ammo has a different powder and seems to ignite easier so not reliant on a crimp.

Interesting that you think crimp (bullet neck tension) is not important, when F class shooters are so concerned about how much or how little neck tension affects accuracy and go to a lot of trouble to obtain consistent neck tension.

 

[eds81]

Not sure how useful it is, but here’s some example cases:

(Hornady, 17gr);

This strike pattern is different
T to my T1x

 

[Smellydog]

Interesting that you think crimp (bullet neck tension) is not important, when F class shooters are so concerned about how much or how little neck tension affects accuracy and go to a lot of trouble to obtain consistent neck tension.

Your missing the context.
I was not discussing accuracy but ignition issues with older 17 hmr ammunition verses newer production.
I have noticed a different powder of late that seems to ignite easily despite an occasional split neck prior to firing.

I never discussed neck tension in reloading CF ammunition.

 

[Smellydog]

Maybe this will help some.

 

[jb1]

@Smellydog I was trying to say its more common with CF owners due to the ability to fibe tune loads OAL etc you can with RF. All the same the HMR lost a big following in the UK since all the problems with squibs and damage to shooter's.

 

[Smellydog]

@Smellydog I was trying to say its more common with CF owners due to the ability to fibe tune loads OAL etc you can with RF. All the same the HMR lost a big following in the UK since all the problems with squibs and damage to shooter's.

I'm confused, what is more common with CF rifles?

I still think hmr is still very popular in the UK.
Some may of chucked the towel in but most seem to of adjusted to the issue and waited for the industry to make changes. They deny it but a few claims made them wake up.... eventually.