New government deer management strategy

[wytonpjs]

I am staggered that there were only 2101 responses to the consultation. Of which only 37 were emailed responses, of which 30 were from organizations. I must have been one of the other 7...

I responded as a "deer manager" online as I suspect many others did off here too!

Responses received​

Defra received 2,101 responses in total (2,064 responses to the survey questionnaire and 37 via email or post). Defra thanks all of those who considered these proposals and provided comments.​

​

Survey respondents were asked in what capacity they were responding to the consultation by selecting from a list of categories, allowing respondents multiple categories to identify themselves by. The most common categories were:​

​

• individuals (1,479 times)
• landowners (375 times)
• farmers (237 times)
• ecologists (70 times)
• ‘other’ (330 times)

Of the 330 respondents who identified themselves as ‘other’, the most common description was ‘deer manager’, followed by ‘deer stalker’.​

​

Most of the emailed responses (30) came from organisations, associations and user groups. Some of the emailed responses did not answer every question.​

​

However, with 34k completed DSC1 holders and 5.6k DSC2 holders, only 2101 responses is pretty dammed poor

 

[Malxwal]

Science went years ago. He’s Governments Chief Feel Advisor.

As in feel gype

 

[Dickie]

I responded as a "deer manager" online as I suspect many others did off here too!

Responses received​

Defra received 2,101 responses in total (2,064 responses to the survey questionnaire and 37 via email or post). Defra thanks all of those who considered these proposals and provided comments.​

​

Survey respondents were asked in what capacity they were responding to the consultation by selecting from a list of categories, allowing respondents multiple categories to identify themselves by. The most common categories were:​

​

• individuals (1,479 times)
• landowners (375 times)
• farmers (237 times)
• ecologists (70 times)
• ‘other’ (330 times)

Of the 330 respondents who identified themselves as ‘other’, the most common description was ‘deer manager’, followed by ‘deer stalker’.​

​

Most of the emailed responses (30) came from organisations, associations and user groups. Some of the emailed responses did not answer every question.​

​

However, with 34k completed DSC1 holders and 5.6k DSC2 holders, only 2101 responses is pretty dammed poor

I think people have given up on responding to consultations they're fed up with council & govt ones which nothing changes or despite the majority answering they don't want something, it's done anyway then needs changing again and ****es a load of tax money up the wall, they win by the apathy they create.

 

[homer]

I can see a price crash coming again! Market will get flooded, price will drop, less deer get shot. Unless the end product can get onto peoples plates more, i don't see it making any difference.

 

[NullMac]

Well I saw something about the great habitat improvements in Scotland now they have whacked the deer. But they have down hee haw about the sJeep on the hill. So let’s kill all the deer so the sheep can stay. Wtf?

 

[Chris Richardson]

I agree that it isn't a barrier, but also think that a .240 threshold is preferable.
This presentence is primarily based on the fact that most .224 bullets are designed for explosive fragmentation on vermin and fox-sized animals, whereas. most .243 bullets are designed controlled expansion on deer.
What you or I or anyone else with years of rifle work under their belt might be able to achieve as regards killing large animals cleanly with small calibres and frangible bullets ought not to be the benchmark, I think.

Not really an issue all I use in my .222 is sako soft points for deer fox long range crows etc

 

[kieran222]

Why is Packhams opinion on the subject of any relevance ? Is he now the governments chief scientific advisor ?

It is important but only because so many people listen to him. If he supports it, his followers will more readily accept it. What he has said is what most deer managers have been saying to justify the culling of deer. Once he has said it then it will be very difficult for him to argue against it in future.
If he was to say something similar for foxes, crows, magpies, etc that would have a big impact on people's perception of shooting them.
Unfortunately that's how it is. Glad he said it but I still don't like him.

 

[slider]

Well I saw something about the great habitat improvements in Scotland now they have whacked the deer. But they have down hee haw about the sJeep on the hill. So let’s kill all the deer so the sheep can stay. Wtf?

Sheep numbers in Scotland are only 25% of what they were 40 years ago.
Number had started to reduce prior to the introduction of sheep quotas in the early 1990's. The removal of headache payments and introduction of the single farm payment followed. This lead to many hill farmers reducing numbers drastically or removing flocks altogether.
This in turn lead to unmanageable hills with a higher food source, which were excellent conditions for deer herds to expand.
One herbivore simply replaced another, and so it always will be.

 

[Mr. Gain]

Not really an issue all I use in my .222 is sako sift pints for deer fox long range crows etc

Glad to hear it.

 

[charlie222]

In the strategy (15.1 i think) it talks about DEFRA and the police looking into competence before issuing deer legal calibres. They really can't keep thier legislative fingers off anything.

 

[Lever357]

Interesting that some of the animal welfare groups who have campaigned against fox hunting with hounds are now proposing reintroducing wolves to chase deer down and tear them to bits!

 

[mammoth200]

Nice to see a little recognition from BDS!

Snippet of BDS' response to the strategy in their latest DeerBytes email:

"We also believe further detail is needed in several areas, including:

• Recognition of the significant contribution made by individual non-professional stalkers.
• The essential role of NGOs in training, best practice guidance and public education.
• Clear training and competency requirements should night shooting permissions be expanded, in the interests of both deer welfare and public safety."

 

[Malxwal]

It is important but only because so many people listen to him. If he supports it, his followers will more readily accept it. What he has said is what most deer managers have been saying to justify the culling of deer. Once he has said it then it will be very difficult for him to argue against it in future.
If he was to say something similar for foxes, crows, magpies, etc that would have a big impact on people's perception of shooting them.
Unfortunately that's how it is. Glad he said it but I still don't like him.

It's a sad truth we need the false prophets reluctant blessing.

 

[Oldstalker]

The points above about AGHEs are well made. They are not even distributed in proportion to the deer and the revival of smaller game dealerships would be a good thing - so long as they are policed and enforced - that has been the problem in the past. I well remember talking to rural policemen telling them to inspect books, ring up the larger suppliers and if the numbers approximately tallied then fine - yes carcasses will be condemned from time to time after delivery, but if y estate said they had delivered x deer and 2x deer were in the record then there is obviously "a rabbit way" and the dealer should be prosecuted for accepting illegally taken carcasses.
The other point is about forestry Licences to Fell and tree planting grants. Again a lack of enforcement means that some landowners who do not like shooting on their land and bodies such as some county trusts for Nature Conservation have been receiving grants for tree planting, not managing or having their deer managed and then not having the grant clawed back when the planting failed or was eaten. The FC need to get much more pro-active about this and ensure Deer Management Plans are written, and acted upon and enforced if they fail. These well intentioned but locally disastrous refugia cause all sorts of problems especially in some lowland areas of England where large numbers of fallow are present.
We, the stalkers should make these points to the BDS, NGO, BASC, Countryside Alliance, GWCT and our landowners so that eventually the Government departments at least get the message. [rant over].

 

[wytonpjs]

……. and bodies such as some county trusts for Nature Conservation have been receiving grants for tree planting, not managing or having their deer managed and then not having the grant clawed back when the planting failed or was eaten. The FC need to get much more pro-active about this and ensure Deer Management Plans are written, and acted upon and enforced if they fail. These well intentioned but locally disastrous refugia cause all sorts of problems especially in some lowland areas of England where large numbers of fallow are present.

^^^ Exactly this - it’s not a rant it’s fact! I was down shooting fallow for a colleague in Sussex 2 weekends ago on equine grazing land that was so poor it beggared belief because of the hundreds of fallow in the surrounding grant-enabled woods that nocturnally came out to graze. The land owner has a night shooting licence but even with that and 10 guns doing focussed LL Sat/FL Sun high seat shoots throughout the season, the numbers are not dwindling because of those sanctuaries. Moreover, those woods also have no understory and are barren lifeless areas - roll on FE et al getting the resource and authority to reclaim the easy money and force those owners to start managing the deer in those woods.

 

[jall55]

It beggars belief that an official Gov site - states "Chris Packham says ......

 

[cjm1066]

Defra seeks engagement with the Home Office and National Police Chiefs’ Council, to explore whether and how existing guidance might be strengthened, including to encourage police forces to request evidence of competence from those applying to use relevant firearms for the purposes of shooting deer in England. Defra will also continue to support the England and Wales Best Practice Guidance and make funding available for appropriate training, particularly in the case of those seeking grant support for lethal control of deer.

How long before DMQ 1 & 2 are compulsory

 

[VSS]

. Defra will also continue to support the England and Wales Best Practice Guidance and make funding available for appropriate training, particularly in the case of those seeking grant support for lethal control of deer.

I think that bit ^^^ is pretty good.
Funding to do the training, and then more funding to shoot the deer.
What's not to like about that?

 

[Chris Richardson]

I think that bit ^^^ is pretty good.
Funding to do the training, and then more funding to shoot the deer.
What's not to like about that?

Funny thing about that is trashing rarely equates to shooting more deer ….

 

[palmer_mike]

Funny thing about that is trashing rarely equates to shooting more deer ….

Indeed. While best practice is nice and the authorities always seem keen on more regulation etc, what we actually need is to KILL MORE DEER.

Efforts should be made to facilitate killing more deer, ie payments to stalkers and guaranteed market for venison.