Right to roam

[sauer]

Network of paths is good idea in principle ...but many state publicly online they purposely avoid paths and tracks and deliberately go "offroad" because they have the
" right to roam "

Needs education and a rename / reminder its a right to "responsible access"

Paul

 

[muddy42]

As VSS has said, for some unfortunate dogs, they are the only way to let off steam.

Our 10-acre village green has unfortunatly turned into an unofficial free dog exercise field for anyone within driving distance, some people come as far as 15 miles away... It's turned into quite literally a "Crap Place"; mothers are frightened to walk the kids there because of the quantity of uncontrolled dogs. I won't go on there. The committee members are quite cool with it all... they all walk their dogs on the green at 7.30am.. quite a pack. You can sometimes hear the scraping between dogs in the darkness... a few have been bitten.

Noted. As you say its an 'unfortunate' existence for a dog, if their owner won't exercise their dog properly.

 

[eds81]

Nearly three-quarters of England’s woods inaccessible to public, study finds | Access to green space | The Guardian Nearly three-quarters of England’s woods inaccessible to public, study finds

Absolute idiotic.

Good

 

[muddy42]

Network of paths is good idea in principle ...but many state publicly online they purposely avoid paths and tracks and deliberately go "offroad" because they have the
" right to roam "

Needs education and a rename / reminder its a right to "responsible access"

Paul

Scotland has another great concept called core paths. These are light touch suggested routes to exercise the right of responsible access without the negatives for the landowner - they do not create any extra legal 'rights' and the landowner doesn't have an obligation to maintain or repair them. Landowners can get funding for various things like those gates that swing shut via gravity and are impossible to leave open.

 

[VSS]

Scotland has another great concept called core paths. These are light touch suggested routes to exercise the right of responsible access without the negatives for the landowner - they do not create any extra legal 'rights' and the landowner doesn't have an obligation to maintain or repair them. Landowners can get funding for various things like those gates that swing shut via gravity and are impossible to leave open.

Sounds like "permissive paths" in Wales (and presumably England?). These are created with the permission of the landowner, working in conjunction with the local council and NRW, usually for the purpose of linking routes together or for access to special areas such as nature reserves. They do not result in the formation of a permanent right of way.

 

[Mike1979]

Footpaths are fine...its the idiots who use the that are the problem.

I despair when someone carries a full bottle of water up a hill or mountain then cant carry it back when its empty...or thinks they can have a barbecue in a farmers field (happened 1/2 mile from us until the farmer caught them) ....

 

[Dunwaters]

If they were treated as a training field, for a dog to learn recall or how to stay at heel, yes Id agree. But the one I have driven past the owners simply stand there in house shoes on a small bit of tarmac sipping coffee, whilst the dogs run wild. Im sorry but Im pretty strict about this. Aside from a quick burn around the garden first thing in the morning for a pee, the aim is for a dog to be at heel or lead 90% of the time.

Nonsense.

Both dog and human actively need to walk together. If standards slip overtime and the dog ends up within a few metres of the owner, thats OK, but you need to start strict.

It takes me about 18 months to train a dog to range out and still pay attention to drop and recall, I couldn’t do it at all without letting it off the leash.

 

[muddy42]

Nonsense.

It takes me about 18 months to train a dog to range out and still pay attention to drop and recall, I couldn’t do it at all without letting it off the leash.

That's not what I said? But anyway we digress, I'm sure it wasn't your dog that has been worrying my deer and sheep.

 

[Freeforester]

I have less of an issue with responsible users having access to land but I think that's the nub- with rights come responsibilities. Too many want the rights without the responsibility, and disturb wildlife, litter, breach the peace and ignore the countryside code. As a result I don't think the right to access should be by default.

I still have some issues with responsible users as there are plenty of studies showing humans alone, and especially humans with dogs, disturb wildlife within a certain radius of their route simply by walking through, with effects lasting half an hour or so after they've been through. This disturbance drives wildlife from heavily used areas and for the creatures not displaced, reduces their feeding and reproductive behaviours, reducing overall survival. Places like the Lake District aren't low on wildlife solely because of sheep farming, despite Monbiot and his ilk's claims- it's also because of the hordes of people tramping through and perturbing the wildlife. I say that as someone who enjoys hiking. Public access to land is not great for nature. Maybe there needs to be a middle ground of some sacrificial areas where the public have access, some where only those who can demonstrate they are responsible have access, and other areas where it's even more restrictive. Which isn't far off where things are currently.

…the rare stuff’s scarce because they need
Some secret, quiet space,
But gi’en ow’r tae mankind’s greed,
It’s sure, they’ll quit - at pace;
An’ replicate this ow’r the land
And surely, will ye see,
The loss to ALL by ‘graspin’ hand’
And wildlife poverty…

In Austrian alpine areas there are designated “no-go” areas where it is forbidden to enter, for the better seclusion and benefit of wildlife; here in the UK it’s a ‘tragedy of the commons’ scenario.

Better the wild lands and its creatures be protected by better legislation before it is too late. Lack of education, as demonstrated by the strident access takers and as demonstrably promoted by the Grauniad will not prevent it from recurring until all of worth is lost, for everyone.

 

[WW.]

…the rare stuff’s scarce because they need
Some secret, quiet space,
But gi’en ow’r tae mankind’s greed,
It’s sure, they’ll quit - at pace;
An’ replicate this ow’r the land
And surely, will ye see,
The loss to ALL by ‘graspin’ hand’
And wildlife poverty…

In Austrian alpine areas there are designated “no-go” areas where it is forbidden to enter, for the better seclusion and benefit of wildlife; here in the UK it’s a ‘tragedy of the commons’ scenario.

Better the wild lands and its creatures be protected by better legislation before it is too late. Lack of education, as demonstrated by the strident access takers and as demonstrably promoted by the Grauniad will not prevent it from recurring until all of worth is lost, for everyone.

Despite the Austrian no go areas, people still go in them.

We don't need more legislation. We need enforcement of the stuff we already have. This obsession that we need new legislation for every problem under the sun is what is restricting our freedoms. Upholding what we have should be the first resort.

 

[Bo Diddley]

Noted. As you say its an 'unfortunate' existence for a dog, if their owner won't exercise their dog properly.

That's just it.. the owners think they are doing a great thing for their dogs by letting them roam free on the village green, it has perimeter hedges and a ditch, but that's it, we often see loose dogs come through the hedge onto the field at the bottom of our garden, at the minute they chase the brown hares that are chasing each other like only Mad March hares do... different when they put sheep on the bottom field. Some owners are as thick as mince.

 

[slider]

Farm where my ,allegedly retired, brother helps out has these signs up. It may raise awareness but they still have multiple dog worrying incidents every year.

 

[308rws]

Despite the Austrian no go areas, people still go in them.

We don't need more legislation. We need enforcement of the stuff we already have. This obsession that we need new legislation for every problem under the sun is what is restricting our freedoms. Upholding what we have should be the first resort.

Where required, I believe that Austrian hunting syndicates have there own Game Wardens who are authorised to issue fines to trespassers etc.

 

[WW.]

Where required, I believe that Austrian hunting syndicates have there own Game Wardens who are authorised to issue fines etc. to trespassers etc.

Doesn't help much if the snowboarder or mountain biker has thundered through though.

 

[Dunwaters]

That's not what I said? But anyway we digress, I'm sure it wasn't your dog that has been worrying my deer and sheep.

I think not, I trust my dogs as far as I can see them and not one inch further and I dont let them out of my sight.
The problem is that there has never been a resource available to everyone that some people have not abused, nowadays the cure is not to deal with the problem by targeting the abusers, but to ban access for everyone.
And thats the way the wind is blowing for dog owners.
67 breeds is just the beginning.

 

[HonestJohn]

Public should be allowed on public land, an adhere to codes of standards or face prosecution. Private land, should be private..unless the land has heritage sites or other areas of heritage interest members of the public should be allowed to visit and view, in such circumstances this should be drawn into ownership clauses a bit like listed buildings.
Just my view, but, others will disagree, and that’s ok

 

[slider]

Public should be allowed on public land, an adhere to codes of standards or face prosecution. Private land, should be private..unless the land has heritage sites or other areas of heritage interest members of the public should be allowed to visit and view, in such circumstances this should be drawn into ownership clauses a bit like listed buildings.
Just my view, but, others will disagree, and that’s ok

I managed public land for a large part of my working life and believe me we got more than our share of non responsible access takers.

I managed farmland belonging to a Edinburgh City Council that was slap bang between two housing estates and if it wasn't by drug couriers on motorbikes it was a travellers encampment. We had to drive in front of the combine to stop neds throwing stuff into the header and bales had to be lifted as soon as they hit the ground or they were troched.

I then spent 12 years with Forestry and Land Scotland. The level of public expectation was off the scale and if you sneezed in the wrong direction there were vexatious formal complaints to both FKS and politicians.

Many have the view that because its public land they have even more right to use and abuse it. 4x4's and cross bikes going where they want and demanding that areas are provided for them to play are just one aspect. Commercial dog walkers by the thousand. If there perhaps a parallel with the section of the deer stalking world that think they should be provided with access for their pastime??

Public access -laws or no laws its going to happen more and more - wether you agree with ot or not your just going to have to learn to live with it.

 

[MarinePMI]

I managed public land for a large part of my working life and believe me we got more than our share of non responsible access takers.

I managed farmland belonging to a Edinburgh City Council that was slap bang between two housing estates and if it wasn't by drug couriers on motorbikes it was a travellers encampment. We had to drive in front of the combine to stop neds throwing stuff into the header and bales had to be lifted as soon as they hit the ground or they were troched.

I then spent 12 years with Forestry and Land Scotland. The level of public expectation was off the scale and if you sneezed in the wrong direction there were vexatious formal complaints to both FKS and politicians.

Many have the view that because its public land they have even more right to use and abuse it. 4x4's and cross bikes going where they want and demanding that areas are provided for them to play are just one aspect. Commercial dog walkers by the thousand. If there perhaps a parallel with the section of the deer stalking world that think they should be provided with access for their pastime??

Public access -laws or no laws its going to happen more and more - wether you agree with ot or not your just going to have to learn to live with it.

Reading this thread, all I can say is that the UK seems to have some strange notions about property rights. Maybe that is because you have less public land(?). Maybe because the Monarchy used to own all of it(?). Regardless, strange.

As to an easy solution for the 1,000's of dog walkers and other idiots tearing up the forests and woods...introduce some actual predators. Wolves, bears, mountain lions/cougars, etc.

People tend to respect what they fear. Especially when they're not at the top of the food chain.

After a few get mauled, they'll be a bit more observant and respectful. If they die, then Darwinism wins in the end. You're just weeding out the dumb ones. Problem solved.

 

[HonestJohn]

Reading this thread, all I can say is that the UK seems to have some strange notions about property rights. Maybe that is because you have less public land(?). Maybe because the Monarchy used to own all of it(?). Regardless, strange.

As to an easy solution for the 1,000's of dog walkers and other idiots tearing up the forests and woods...introduce some actual predators. Wolves, bears, mountain lions/cougars, etc.

People tend to respect what they fear. Especially when they're not at the top of the food chain.

After a few get mauled, they'll be a bit more observant and respectful. If they die, then Darwinism wins in the end. You're just weeding out the dumb ones. Problem solved.

We have cougars here aplenty, but that’s a different kettle of fish

 

[Bo Diddley]

Farm where my ,allegedly retired, brother helps out has these signs up. It may raise awareness but they still have multiple dog worrying incidents every year.View attachment 465693

I'm sure the idiots that walk on the village green would think that sign is some joke...
I'll give you an idea of what they are like.. I took a young Cocker spaniel on there, she was on a lead, a Border terrier belonging to one of the trusties came rushing over and started to set about by dog, I sort of gave the Border a flick off with my boot... not maliciously, just got the top of my boot under it's belly and lifted it off a few yards with a flick, the guy didn't quite know what to say... he never apologised for his dogs aweful behaviour, just wandered off in a daze around the green