New NE Deer Night Shooting Licence England/Wales (CL55)

[25 Sharps]

Let me put another slant on this:

I think that there's greater pleasure to be had not from killing the deer you want to kill, but from keeping the deer you want to keep.
When you look down your scope you make a life-or-death decision, and I defy anyone to deny that they get a buzz out of letting one walk on when they could have squeezed the trigger.
If it's the act of killing things that gives you your buzz then you might just as well get a job in an abattoir. You are not worthy to call yourself a hunter.

Ok, I'll take the bait, I don't get a buzz from letting one walk, which I do fairly often. There is the satisfaction that you could have had a successful stalk even though you chose not to, but definitely not a buzz in any way shape or form.

To be honest the only time I get anything I would describe as a buzz is after a particularly long or tricky stalk, the kind where you spot a deer a long way off and have to work the ground to get in, or they are close but aware and you have to outsmart them, and that stalk is then successful. That lets anticipation build and feels like you have achieved something, rather than spotting at 200 odd yards and shooting them off sticks, which I also do quite often.

I honestly think people are in denial if they don't view the kill, or the potential to make a kill, as an important part of the overall experience and therefore enjoyment, as said above, it is simply not hunting without it!

 

[25 Sharps]

Applies to any animal I think
Any hare I see I leave alone as they were quite in decline in this area few years back.

I have one farm where I cull the hares back hard every year, as it has massively reduced the occurrences of people driving through fences / gates / crops and throwing dogs out after them. I really don't enjoy killing hares at all, I'd go as far to say I don't like it, but its a job that has to be done.

 

[25 Sharps]

One of the reasons I wish the firearm act was a bit more precise and stated an actual genuine distance within reason someone can carry a rifle without a certificate rather than it being incredibly subjective, there's been many times where I should probably carry a rifle with me however the legal consequences arent worth the risk.

There's pieces of ground where It makes no sense for mentor too follow me for retrieval so he stays back with the rifle, however If the deer is alive I'm not grabbing it and slitting Its throat (VSS can probably understand this!) and the sight line with me makes It unsafe or the terrain makes it infeasible too see the deer for a shot.

The only real dispatch method I would find the most logical and safest is the lung stab and twist, but I also agree Its by far the most inhumane too Its really not something I want too ever find myself doing on an otherwise "lively" yet downed deer, I'd rather just shoot it.

It makes absolute sense for the mentor to follow you if he ha the rifles, it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to stay back!

 

[VSS]

.

I honestly think people are in denial if they don't view the kill, or the potential to make a kill, as an important part of the overall experience and therefore enjoyment, as said above, it is simply not hunting without it!

Nobody has denied that in this thread so far, I don't think.
Everyone seems to be in agreement that a successful kill is a part of what we do, and that we enjoy stalking.

It's whether one derives enjoyment from the act of killing that's under debate.
Remember, killing can be a standalone activity. There is no need to hunt in order to kill.
Would you enjoy killing if it wasn't part of hunting? I doubt it!
Would you still enjoy a hunt that, for whatever reason, didn't result in a kill? Quite probably.

 

[willie_gunn]

Exactly, but people won't admit it. I hunt because I am passionate about it.

I’m passionate about deer, but I’m just not passionate about killing deer.

I’ve killed plenty over the last 30 or so years, but I’m now at the point where, if told that I would never have to kill another deer; I wouldn’t lose a minute of sleep over it. I’d still go out to watch and study deer, because it is deer that interest me, not killing deer.

Reality tells us that the number of deer in the UK need to be controlled. Deer are a natural resource that need to managed ethically and humanely, so I will continue to shoot them, butcher them, and sell the resulting venison to people who appreciate it. I get satisfaction from a job well done, but in my case the killing is simply a means to an end, not an end in itself. I don’t get a buzz, a kick, or a thrill from the act of killing a deer. If others do, fine. I’ve guided plenty who are only interested in the thrill of the chase and the kill itself. We are all wired differently.

As some here will know, I also shoot deer with a camera. Deer photography is not some poor relation to deer stalking - in many ways it is more challenging, more exciting, and more satisfying. Getting good shots of deer with a camera is way more difficult than getting a shot at a deer with a rifle. The added bonus being that, when you’re successful, there’s no larder work afterwards!

 

[VSS]

I honestly think people are in denial if they don't view the kill, or the potential to make a kill, as an important part of the overall experience and therefore enjoyment, as said above, it is simply not hunting without it!

I have one farm where I cull the hares back hard every year, as it has massively reduced the occurrences of people driving through fences / gates / crops and throwing dogs out after them. I really don't enjoy killing hares at all, I'd go as far to say I don't like it, but its a job that has to be done.

I rest my case

 

[25 Sharps]

I rest my case

I don't view culling hares as hunting, its a job that uses a rifle.

 

[25 Sharps]

Nobody has denied that in this thread so far, I don't think.
Everyone seems to be in agreement that a successful kill is a part of what we do, and that we enjoy stalking.

It's whether one derives enjoyment from the act of killing that's under debate.
Remember, killing can be a standalone activity. There is no need to hunt in order to kill.
Would you enjoy killing if it wasn't part of hunting? I doubt it!
Would you still enjoy a hunt that, for whatever reason, didn't result in a kill? Quite probably.

I think the crux of it is people generally say that they don't enjoy the killing part, but in my view they do (even if they won't admit) because its part of the overall enjoyment and can't be separated out. As I say, it is a good example of cognitive dissonance, they enjoy it but they don't feel they should enjoy it, so they deny it is part of the enjoyment, saying they enjoy every other part of the stalk just not the kill, the kill that defines the act of hunting.

 

[willie_gunn]

I think the crux of it is people generally say that they don't enjoy the killing part, but in my view they do (even if they won't admit) because its part of the overall enjoyment and can't be separated out. As I say, it is a good example of cognitive dissonance, they enjoy it but they don't feel they should enjoy it, so they deny it is part of the enjoyment, saying they enjoy every other part of the stalk just not the kill, the kill that defines the act of hunting.

With fishing we've managed perfectly well to separate the act of killing from the overall enjoyment - we return salmon these days rather than knocking them on the head - in fact to kill a fish is positively frowned upon.

So clearly the kill doesn't define the act of hunting.

 

[25 Sharps]

With fishing we've managed perfectly well to separate the act of killing from the overall enjoyment - we return salmon these days rather than knocking them on the head - in fact to kill a fish is positively frowned upon.

So clearly the kill doesn't define the act of hunting.

Fishing isn’t hunting and we don’t catch and release deer for our own enjoyment, I’m struggling to see the comparison as valid.

I should probably also add, having done a lot as a teenager, I now view catch and release fishing as cruel!

 

[willie_gunn]

I don't view culling hares as hunting, its a job that uses a rifle.

I don't see culling deer as hunting, it's a job that uses a rifle.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Fishing isn’t hunting and we don’t catch and release deer for our own enjoyment, I’m struggling to see the comparison as valid.

I should probably also add, having done a lot as a teenager, I now view catch and release fishing as cruel!

Oh I hunt the fish, no point in fishing where they’re not!

As a carp angler if your not on fish, your glamping, that’s the exact reason I don’t fish day ticket waters

 

[willie_gunn]

Fishing isn’t hunting and we don’t catch and release deer for our own enjoyment, I’m struggling to see the comparison as valid.

I should probably also add, having done a lot as a teenager, I now view catch and release fishing as cruel!

Of course fishing is hunting! I spot the fish in its natural environment, I creep up on it unawares, I catch it. In the past I'd kill it too. It's hunting with a fly rod!

I share your views of catch & release.

 

[25 Sharps]

I don't see culling deer as hunting, it's a job that uses a rifle.

If that’s how you see it, fair enough. For me it’s defiantly hunting, unlike culling hares or rats.

 

[Mike1979]

I think the crux of it is people generally say that they don't enjoy the killing part, but in my view they do (even if they won't admit) because its part of the overall enjoyment and can't be separated out. As I say, it is a good example of cognitive dissonance, they enjoy it but they don't feel they should enjoy it, so they deny it is part of the enjoyment, saying they enjoy every other part of the stalk just not the kill, the kill that defines the act of hunting.

I probably cant spell most of the issues I have but thanks for highlighting this

I absolutely love the process and most of the steps involved but why is it an issue if I dont actually enjoy the killing part? I am not saying that I have an issue with it and I get enjoyment from a well placed shot and a quick death and its a very necessary part of the process.

 

[Mike1979]

Go out with a camera then no need for a rifle.

Im just popping out now , I will try not to enjoy myself but I have got the rifle with me

We will be having words if you are going to spout this nonsense to me ....you have been warned

 

[25 Sharps]

Of course fishing is hunting! I spot the fish in its natural environment, I creep up on it unawares, I catch it. In the past I'd kill it too. It's hunting with a fly rod!

I share your views of catch & release.

Sorry, I should have expanded, catch and release fishing isn’t hunting. It’s purely causing unnecessary suffering to an animal for the fisherman’s own enjoyment.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Sorry, I should have expanded, catch and release fishing isn’t hunting. It’s purely causing unnecessary suffering to an animal for the fisherman’s own enjoyment.

Bit like trophy hunting then

 

[25 Sharps]

Bit like trophy hunting then

Not really, the carcass still goes into the food chain, and the aim is (should be) to kill the animal as quickly and humanely as possible.

Rather than dragging it by its mouth out into an atmosphere where it can’t breath.

 

[willie_gunn]

Sorry, I should have expanded, catch and release fishing isn’t hunting. It’s purely causing unnecessary suffering to an animal for the fisherman’s own enjoyment.

I can certainly sympathise with that view - it was easy to defend fishing when what was caught went into the pot, but to catch it just to then put it back makes me uneasy.