Lead - EU Reach Meeting/Proposal

[Dunwaters]

I am not against a ban of lead shot for live quarry shooting, what i do object to is s ban for clay shooting for

I agree, ultimately I think this will come down to the decision of the various governing bodies regarding ammunition acceptable for competition. If your shooters cannot be competitive in international competitions because they cannot use or practice with lead at home it may force a concession.

1) because the current laws on using lead ammunition are not enforced.

True

2) the stupid idea of elite atheists lead shot is not toxic

Thats not what’s being said, it is toxic and its use will be confined to specific locations with containment and recovery

3) bonafide clay grounds operate over a fixed relatively tiny area of land, so risks can be managed, like outdoor ranges.

True,

4) limit the shot size to that of 9 or 8 which is no different in principle to that of lead is ok up to .243

Agreed, with caveats.

5) the belief all the issues with game shooting are solved if lead shot is banned.

No, all the issues with game shooting won’t be solved if lead is banned, just the lead issue.

 

[Dunwaters]

No, there is 0 proof on those. Show me a single person that had lead poisoning in the UK from eating lead shot game.

You can't.

Because it doesn't exist. And thats fact. There's no record of it ever happening over here. You're at higher risk of getting hit by a car or even dieing from the exhaust fumes from vehicles. Hell, you're probably at higher risk being attacked by a bloody shark over here than that!

You’re rehashing the same old tripe again while utterly ignoring the evidence and avoiding the real issue.
Lead shot is proven to be toxic to wildlife, thats why the ban is being pursued.

 

[Liveonce]

True

Thats not what’s being said, it is toxic and its use will be confined to specific locations with containment and recovery

So other than cost, why cannot that happen to all bonafide clay shooting locations that wanted to do so.

Will be interesting, without government grant money to see which, if any grounds actually think it’s financially worth doing. Possibly practical for a trap discipline, impossible for a FITAS or English sporting ground.
Then how far will the elite athletes have to travel to practice.

Clay shooting in this country survives by a mix of shooting grounds from your small local clubs to large commercial grounds, lose the small clubs and entry into the sport becomes harder and more costly.

You only have to look at the HO stats to see the age profile of the majority who participate in shooting, it’s already in trouble.

we will see no concessions, we did not after the pistol ban, when we had elite athletes having to cross the channel to continue to practice, it was not sustainable.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

WJ will not go away just because we stop using lead, they hate the idea of rearing non native game by the millions to be shot at as a flying target. game that is doing more environmental harm to the floria and fauna than lead shot will ever do round a small area occupied for clay shooting,

already on the agenda is licences for game shoots and personally I think that is a good idea.

WJ are going to keep pushing for the end of game shooting.

Gamebirds – Wild Justice

wildjustice.org.uk

I got banned for saying exactly that!

Admittedly, it wasn’t quite as polite, but I still got banned.

 

[cjm1066]

Lead in ammunition: Latest developments

Perhaps we should have stayed in the EU?

 

[Heym SR20]

For small clubs, whether it be clay shooting or rifle shooting, the costs of taking measures to capture lead to prevent it from entering the wider environment, into water courses etc etc and then recovering it from time to time will be pretty significant.

Steel shot is manufactured in vast quantities for industrial uses such as shot blasting etc. yes the steel shot used in shotgun cartridges is a higher grade, but probably comes from the same initial sources.

I have shot clays with steel shot. Funnily enough they break just fine. When it comes to competition shooting, provided everyone is shooting the same type cartridges and its a level playing field it will matter little.

 

[Smellydog]

You’re rehashing the same old tripe again while utterly ignoring the evidence and avoiding the real issue.
Lead shot is proven to be toxic to wildlife, thats why the ban is being pursued.

That is not why the ban is being pursued at all because if it was in the interests of wildlife then agro chemicals would be stopped and spraying slurry.
We are the easy target to wave a triumphant virtu flag over!

If I force feed newspaper cuttings to duck it will kill them, then what?

 

[Liveonce]

For small clubs, whether it be clay shooting or rifle shooting, the costs of taking measures to capture lead to prevent it from entering the wider environment, into water courses etc etc and then recovering it from time to time will be pretty significant.

Steel shot is manufactured in vast quantities for industrial uses such as shot blasting etc. yes the steel shot used in shotgun cartridges is a higher grade, but probably comes from the same initial sources.

I have shot clays with steel shot. Funnily enough they break just fine. When it comes to competition shooting, provided everyone is shooting the same type cartridges and its a level playing field it will matter little.

None of this lead ban is about public heath, lead enters the food chain from many sources.

Makes me laugh to think of the challenges facing this country with regards public heath. But no it’s lead in ammunition that is such a massive heath problem.

Just back from doing a little shopping in Tescos over heard a rather large lady say to a man with her, another large man, if you want to wait in the car i will not be long then we can go to McDonalds

good for you, were they biodegradable wads? and how frequently do you shoot clays, many of us dedicated clay shooters do so weekly and have yet to eat one clay.

The risk from any type of clay shooting on bonafide clay grounds of it impacting on human heath or the environment is ridiculously tiny, we have been thrown under the bus for live quarry shooting. Yet even when we are no longer using lead the antis will just move on to a new way to stop live quarry shooting. Eventually there will nothing left that is legal to shoot, with may be the exception of rats.

Respond to Defra’s consultation on shooting seasons, including for Woodcock – Wild Justice

wildjustice.org.uk

 

[Heym SR20]

None of this lead ban is about public heath, lead enters the food chain from many sources.

Makes me laugh to think of the challenges facing this country with regards public heath. But no it’s lead in ammunition that is such a massive heath problem.

Just back from doing a little shopping in Tescos over heard a rather large lady say to a man with her, another large man, if you want to wait in the car i will not be long then we can go to McDonalds

good for you, were they biodegradable wads? and how frequently do you shoot clays, many of us dedicated clay shooters do so weekly and have yet to eat one clay.

The risk from any type of clay shooting on bonafide clay grounds of it impacting on human heath or the environment is ridiculously tiny, we have been thrown under the bus for live quarry shooting. Yet even when we are no longer using lead the antis will just move on to a new way to stop live quarry shooting. Eventually there will nothing left that is legal to shoot, with may be the exception of rats.

Respond to Defra’s consultation on shooting seasons, including for Woodcock – Wild Justice

wildjustice.org.uk

Broken record

 

[Liveonce]

Broken record

Broken country

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Lead in ammunition: Latest developments

Perhaps we should have stayed in the EU?

Yep, life would’ve been a lot easier if we had!

Shame the brand brain dead idiots voted us out, things haven’t improved anyway shape flor form have they?

 

[jimmer.13]

Broken record

 

[jimmer.13]

Perhaps poisoning millions with your tobacco products has caused some reflection

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Perhaps poisoning millions with your tobacco products has caused some reflection

Bit below the belt!

Smoking is a choice not compulsory, any illness related to smoking products self-inflicted, failing that the people who didn’t smoke that were in the same vicinity as a smoker could always have got up and walked away one of life’s choices.

 

[Dunwaters]

That is not why the ban is being pursued at all because if it was in the interests of wildlife then agro chemicals would be stopped and spraying slurry.
We are the easy target to wave a triumphant virtu flag over!

If I force feed newspaper cuttings to duck it will kill them, then what?

The impact on wildlife was and is the primary reason for pursuing restrictions on lead. The USA has had a Federal ban on shooting wildfowl with lead since 1991.
The REACH proposal based on WHO recommendations is recent.
We don’t actually need to shoot game , it’s optional.
Use of agricultural chemicals and slurry spreading is
(A). Essential .
And
(B). Highly regulated.

 

[Mike L]

By below the belt!

Smoking is a choice not compulsory, any illness related to smoking products self-inflicted, failing that the people who didn’t smoke that were in the same vicinity as a smoker could always have got up and walked away one of life’s choices.

Roy castle.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Roy castle.

He could have not performed it was his choice!

Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the right choice. Sometimes you make the wrong but whatever happens is one of those things where you have to live with the consequences.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

We don’t actually need to shoot game.

Exactly that!

This is where I’m gonna stop because last time we got onto this subject, I got banned!

 

[palmer_mike]

Broken record

Ironic

 

[Liveonce]

Bit below the belt!

Smoking is a choice not compulsory, any illness related to smoking products self-inflicted, failing that the people who didn’t smoke that were in the same vicinity as a smoker could always have got up and walked away one of life’s choices.

But surly like the government banning lead for the good of public health the government has a duty of care to ban smoking to protect people from themselves, like now we have a choice not to eat game shot with lead but the government is going to protect us from harm.