The SGA "Study" Part 1

[bambislayer]

The economic importance of red deer to Scotland’s rural economy and the political threat now facing the country’s iconic species

Peter Fraser, Vice-chairman, Scottish Gamekeepers Association

Angus MacKenzie OBE CA

Donald MacKenzie BSc CA



POLITICAL BACKGROUND
By Peter Fraser


A national scandal is playing out on Scotland’s hills. And while our wild red deer are the immediate casualties of the nation’s indifference, the price will ultimately be paid by the decline and decay of remote rural communities the length and breadth of this country.

Our society is allowing exceptional animals to be destroyed: mown down like vermin in the night. It is permitting valuable carcasses to be abandoned to waste where they fall and indiscriminate night shooting to infringe animal welfare codes. Is this the way to manage Scotland’s iconic animal, the celebrated Monarch of the Glen? We’re laying our greatest wildlife assets to waste without considering the consequences. And it may already be too late in some places to prevent the devastation from being permanent.

I believe the threat to the future wellbeing of Scotland’s red deer herd has reached a tipping-point. After spending more than half a century spying, stalking, discussing and managing these wild animals I fear that we are on the point of destroying for ever a precious national resource which attracts nature lovers, walkers and sportsmen to our hills, brings employment to the glens, fine food to our tables and revenue to our nation.

Severe weather has had a natural impact on the deer in recent years, with the winter of 2010-11 resulting in severe mortality in many places. But natural events are phenomena the deer have had to cope with for centuries. What is now putting them - and fragile rural economies - at risk are the confused and conflicting aims for the land on which the herds roam.

Overambitious and ill thought through forestry or conservation projects are the longest running culprits and the most notorious crimes at Glenfeshie and Mar Lodge estates will go down in history as animal welfare atrocities. But carnages continue to be carried out in numerous locations in the name of protecting unfenced natural regeneration.

There is also pressure from new types of environmental degradation. One is what’s known as ‘trampling’, the presence of hoof-marks. These natural marks are being used on Sites of Special Scientific Interest (SSSIs) and other protected areas as a reason to bear down on deer numbers. And while most unbiased observers would argue that deer-prints are inevitable on wild land, the habitat conservators at Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) claim such pressure discriminates against the growth and health of rare plant communities. And in many places SNH has insisted upon “corrections” in deer numbers in unrealistically short time frames, even when they previously accepted the relevant site conditions. In other words the pressure has been ramped up.

The impact of all these natural, environmental and economic pressures is that deer populations have taken extreme punishment in the last decade. And the omens are that it’s far from over because the Scottish Government has signaled its intention to plant trees on vast areas of the country, increasing afforestation from 17% to 25% of Scotland by 2050.

Food security concerns and the power of the farming lobby means the arable and sheep rearing ground won’t be easily given up, so what’s left? The deer lands, of course. And if the deer have nowhere to summer or winter, they’ll have to be culled.

I want to be clear that I don’t believe in deer at any price, and nor is my philosophy “the more the better”. This is a small country and there are many competing pressures on the land. In a few specific areas there are probably too many deer for the acreage of ground that they now have access to, and the last thing I ever want to see are animals starving because of lack of food.

What I’m worried about is the generally held perception that deer have become a widespread menace which don’t need our protection. The general message from conservation groups is the less deer that roam the hills the happier they will be. And such is their lack of respect they see no need on many occasions to bother taking the carcasses back to their larders. Certainly the John Muir Trust has adopted that attitude in Glen Nevis, leaving walkers to stumble across carcasses. And Forestry Commission Scotland left carcasses in the Skelpick Woods in Sutherland when they culled heavily during incursions two winters ago.



First hand knowledge

As a deer stalker all my life I know better than most people just how much a single stag or hind on the hill costs in terms of the number of man-hours spent spying and stalking.

Stalkers also recognise the importance of a balanced age structure within herds both locally and nationally which will guarantee the production of sustainable numbers of mature stags. It’s critical to have older hinds in the herds because they play an important role in leading the younger animals to wintering grounds and shelter and it can take years for the young to learn. And sporting clients want to stalk mature stags.


Because I live in a rural community I also know at first hand how the income from red deer stalking, and indeed deer tourism in general, impacts on the most remote and scattered regions of Scotland.

I know the families, businesses and professionals who rely on red deer for their livelihoods. They range from hoteliers and B&B owners, farriers, tweed companies, ATV retailers, vehicle dealerships, wildlife photographers and tour operators, venison processors, cooks and restaurateurs to countless others who have a role in the relatively unknown culture of rural Scotland.

Most folk assume deer stalking is sport confined exclusively to those who are wealthy enough to own large estates or can afford to rent a shooting lodge for a week. They imagine that there’s a huge profit to be made from selling a red deer carcass which is pocketed by the landowner and that’s the end of the story. Yet that’s not what my stalking colleagues and I have witnessed over the years during our work on large and small estates across the country.

I vowed to delve behind the assumptions and prejudices to find out more about the economics of deer stalking.

 

[bambislayer]

Part 2

Financial impact

Some sound work has already been done on the subject. In 2006 the Association of Deer Management Groups commissioned a survey titled The Contribution of Deer Management to the Scottish Economy. It was carried out by Public and Corporate Economic Consultants (PACEC) and their key findings were that the total cost of all deer management in Scotland amounted to £105 million in 2005, with two thirds of this spend retained in Scotland. The other key finding was that deer management in Scotland supported the equivalent of 2520 paid full time jobs and the value of this employment to the Scottish economy was £70.4 million.

These are useful and impressive statistics but they didn’t succeed in bringing alive the reality of the numerous implications of a sustainable long-term deer management policy.













There are also interesting statistics in A Highland Deer Herd And Its Habitat, the book written by the late Paul van Vlissingen, the former owner of Letterewe estate. His income and expenditure figures showed just how much his estate was subsidising deer management.


1999 2000 2001

Total costs 220,000 231,000 221,000

Total Income 86,000 101,000 91,000

Net Loss* 134,000 130,000 130,000

* Including the money paid by the van Vlissingen family for their stay and stalking

I was keen to see if these figures were replicated more widely so decided to focus on one area - Sutherland - which many regard as the ultimate destination for deer stalking. The estates here tend to be large, employment opportunities very limited and it is a region where tourism is of fundamental importance to the rural economy.

I wasn’t in the position of being able to commission a major consultation but am grateful for the professional support of Inverness Chartered Accountants, Angus and Donald MacKenzie. In tandem with them and with the encouragement and backing of the Association of Deer Management Groups (ADMG) we asked estates throughout Sutherland to release their financial accounts (on a strictly confidential basis) in order that the MacKenzies might analyse the income and expenditure from deer management. Detailed maps showing estate boundaries and deer numbers culled were kindly supplied by SNH.

SGA study

Of the 80 estates which manage deer and stalking in Sutherland, 10 participated in our study. But some of the estates involved are so extensive the sample actually accounts for 20% of the land area and 20% of all the deer culled in the county.

It’s important to remember that unlike agriculture or forestry, there is no taxpayer support for deer management which is required to be carried out under the terms of the Deer (Scotland) Act.

The MacKenzies analysis reveals that the deer-related income to estates in Sutherland is in the region of £1.6 million, with expenditure on deer management of £4.7 million. Around 40 % of expenditure is on wages, suggesting nearly £2m is paid to employees, with further expenditure on houses for employees. These figures clearly demonstrate that through deer activities and investment, owners are providing substantial financial support to remote rural economies. Certainly no public sector business could support such year on year losses and such sustained financial commitment to the sector is extremely significant in an area like Sutherland.

Loch Choire Estate

This 32,000 acre estate lies right in the heart of Sutherland and is typical of a Highland sporting estate. The primary land use and enterprise is red deer stalking. Shooting tenants occupy the estate lodge from mid-August to early December and this income represents half the estate’s annual turnover. Deer management also accounts for the employment of two full time stalkers and 3-4 seasonal staff.

However deer numbers are dropping here as a result of two harsh winters, increased culling on neighbouring estates and greater culls by conservation interests. Land agent Tom Chetwynd of Bowlts Chartered Surveyors says the estate owners are not currently too concerned about the contraction because regular tenants are still satisfied with the package on offer.

He adds: “However it can’t go on forever and there are no other business alternatives for this estate. The land comprises sensitive peat land and is part of the Peatlands Special Area of Conservation (SAC) and renewables are currently not an option as the estate is 12 miles from the nearest grid connection. We tried letting the lodge for general tourism without any stalking but there was no interest and only limited interest in fishing.

“The owners feel strongly about maintaining employment and it’s clear that without deer there would be none.”



Other businesses

So what’s the downstream impact of red deer and the investment by estates? What do red deer represent to people on the ground? You just need to spend a couple of days travelling around speaking to folk to find out, and while there’s only room for a few examples here, they give a flavour of the variety of businesses which depend on red deer for their survival.

Ardgay Game

Managing Director Les Waugh established this venison processing company at Bonar Bridge in 1982 and it now has a staff of 15 at peak season. The family business is currently investing £300,000 in new facilities and aims to increase throughput in line with demand from prestigious customers which include House of Bruar on the A9, Skibo Castle, Gleneagles, top end restaurateurs in London and 900 retail outlets in Scandinavia.

Mr Waugh explained: “We’re bang in the middle of deer stalking country and rely on the throughput from local estates to make the business viable. If significantly more hinds were culled in the short term because of a change in Government policy, it would mean populations would be reduced in the long term and that would have a severe impact on our business and the families we employ.

“Sutherland is sparsely populated and jobs are hard to come by so when a major employer disappears the consequences are dramatic. The town of Brora used to thrive on the back of the woolen mill and since it closed down all you see there are houses for sale. I’d fear a similar scenario across Sutherland if the deer are decimated.”


Sutherland Sporting Tweed

The Offor family who own this enterprise in the centre of Lairg emphasise their business is entirely reliant on stalking and fishing, and when you enter the shop the reasons why are immediately obvious. Row after well-stocked row of plus fours, tweed jackets, traditional deerstalkers and country clothing line the walls in every shape and size and bales of tweed are stacked high in traditional patterns. The Offors have two main strings to their bow; producing estate tweed suits for hundreds of gamekeepers, ghillies and stalkers on 89 Scottish estates (15 of them in Sutherland), and also kitting out the sportsmen and their families who come from around the world to fish the famous Sutherland salmon rivers and stalk red deer.

Ian Offor points out that that of all the tourists who come to enjoy the stark beauty of Sutherland, it is sporting tourism that brings by far the most revenue.

He states: “Sporting tourists spend a lot of money in the area. They stay in hotels, eat out for meals and they buy traditional tweeds and country clothes to wear here and to take back to Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, America and all the other countries which are fanatical about what we have here in Scotland. There’s no way this business would survive without stalking and salmon fishing, and that’s true of many other small family businesses across the county.”


Aird Motors, Beauly

David Tuach is the Managing Director and part-owner of this businesses which specializes in Argocats, the light, amphibious, 8 wheel vehicle which is used to transport culled stags and hinds back from the hills and is ubiquitous on sporting estates across Scotland. The company sells around 30 a year, trade which is equivalent to a third of the turnover of this strong business.

So how does David Tuach evaluate the economic importance of deer in Scotland?

“It’s absolutely vital to our business,” he states. “If stalking were to be reduced or phased out it would be devastating.”




Park House Guest House, Lairg

David (a former chairman of the Lairg Community Council) and Margaret Walker have run the 4 stars Park House Guest House for 20 years. It’s on the shore of Loch Shin so fishermen are regular clients and other guests regularly come to shoot woodcock. Until just six years ago an important element of David’s business was arranging deer stalking packages for guests on Forestry Commission (FC) land. And although the interest and demand from clients is still strong, the opportunities ended abruptly when FC policy changed and all culling was transferred to contract stalkers. The move resulted in a significant dent in David’s income and disappointment that opportunities for many people to enjoy the experience of affordable stalking had been lost.

He argues: “The stalking tended to be repeat business and they were all big-spending people who brought a boost to the local economy. Many of these people have now gone to shoot in Eastern Europe instead and that’s a big loss to the village. But the sporting estates in Sutherland are also crucial to the remote communities and businesses throughout the county and if the deer are lost and staffing levels fall we’ll all feel the impact.”

Keith Hedley, Farrier, Lairg

Between mid July and the end of October Keith Hedley employs seven full time men to cater for the needs of at least 100 stalking ponies. He offers a vital service to estates which require their ponies to be fit and fully shod for the demanding task of bringing the stags back from the hill to the larder in the traditional Highland way. Farriers are on-call to attend to ponies on remote estates where they might have lost a shoe and need urgent attention as deer carcasses can’t be left out to waste.

The peak stalking season brings in 25-30% of Keith’s profit margin for the year and represents a crucial part of his business. Stalkers tell him their concerns about the loss of mature stags after the imposition of severe culls.

He adds: “Guests come to Sutherland to pay good money to shoot mature animals, not babies. There are already a lot less deer than there were 10 years ago but people believe there are just as many because the animals are fenced out of their traditional wintering areas for forestry schemes and are forced down nearer the roads. It’s clearly a concern for everyone involved in any way with this important traditional business.”


Venison market

There is, of course, a great irony in the timing of the relentless drive to slaughter hinds and permanently reduce their numbers on the hills, because venison is now in demand as never before. It is widely promoted on supermarket shelves and lauded by chefs and restaurateurs. And such is the enthusiasm for this lean organic meat we’ve heard calls for the establishment of more deer farms on the lower ground. Making venison a cheap, intensively produced product instead of a wild, special one risks repeating the mistakes already made in Scotland with salmon.

The role of stalkers

And let’s not forget the importance of deer stalkers in rural Scotland. In many places we’re the only people left in remote communities and we play a vital role in emergency situations. We know extensive hill ground like no one else because we’ve spied from every cairn and corrie and can offer expert, first hand knowledge and assistance when someone goes missing or something goes wrong. It’s worth remembering too that part of a stalker’s contract of employment is his tied house and without deer to manage and a job to do, another family would disappear from the hills.

I’m approaching retirement and soon won’t need to worry about walking out every day over miles of empty hills, endlessly spying for the sight of a stag or a hind. But I won’t stop caring about the way we’re mismanaging and wasting a precious natural resource, or fearing that the dearth of deer will sound the death knell for many communities in the glens.





















ACCOUNTANTS’ REPORT

By Angus and Donald MacKenzie, Chartered Accountants, Inverness


We concentrated on 10 of the 81 estates in Sutherland and are grateful to the owners and representatives who have readily cooperated with us and given us the facts and figures on their enterprises.

From their financial accounts of the last three years we have collated and summarised the income and expenditure related to their deer enterprises. We believe that these figures are a fair representative sample of all of the estates in the whole area.

We collected figures on numbers of people employed directly on the estates. The full time equivalent of employment in the management and running of the deer enterprises on these estates is 112 with at least 140 households supported by employment in deer enterprises.

These figures include nothing whatsoever for grant aid or subsidies and are entirely exclusive of holiday lets, fishing and other estate income and expenditure.

In brief compass we have accurate financial and employment figures for 20% of the land area in our study area, the whole of which covers 402,000 hectares.

The Deer Commision /SNH total Winter Count figures for 2008 in our Study Area amounted to 33,455 for all classes of red deer, with 6773 on the ten estates for which we have exact figures. Applying our 20% factor (multiplying by 5) to income and expenditure, as shown on the accompanying table suggests that estates require a net contribution annually from all the proprietors of £3.1 million. This is demonstrated in more detail on the accompanying schedules.

These figures cover only revenue income and expenditure and no cognisance has been taken of any capital expenditure incurred by any estate, which can be considerable in some years

Expenditure on the estates substantially exceeds the income generated and this has required a contribution from the proprietors amounting to £3.1million annually in the years under review.


There are some missing maps & tables due to formating

CONCLUSIONS

• In Sutherland, 112 full-time jobs are supported by deer management, the equivalent of 140 dependent households

• There are serious concerns from a broad range of Sutherland businesses that pressure to cull increasing numbers of deer will have a negative effect on income and employment

• Heavy culling of Scotland's iconic species to meet conservation and other countryside objectives could have a major impact on the ability of Sutherland sporting estates to continue to operate viably. This, in turn, would have significant consequences for fragile local communities and could increase welfare burdens on the State

• The Scottish Government and conservation bodies must carefully consider the consequences of an increasingly aggressive approach to deer culling in fragile economic areas

The SGA wishes to thank everyone who has been involved in contributing to this study. Donald and Angus MacKenzie, the estates and individual businesses have given generously and freely of their time and knowledge.

 

[bambislayer]

Some of the maps and tables are missing, but you'll get the gist of the "Study"

It has certainly stirred up a fair bit of media attention, even John Craven!

 

[pilgrimmick]

A lot to take in, will re read and then comment. Excellent effort though, thank you.

 

[pilgrimmick]

Excellent, the spread of the stalking pound is well brought out in this thread.
It is not just the hotels, B&Bs and estates, but even the farrier and motor trader. The fact that estates lose thousands of pounds, yet still employ locals, not the actions of rich snobs, but of people who care for the community.
A well researched piece, this should be pinned at the top of the forum for everyone to see.

 

[mallettn]

It is well written - I hope it has some effect though creating media interest and starting to ensure that the interests of the forestry juggenaut start getting balanced by the interests of deer conservation and the economic & community interests relating to their sporting value.

Thanks for posting it here.

 

[6pointer]

It did always worry me that public money would be spent creating jobs in the deer sector that in turn would created unemployment in the private sector.

 

[NickJ]

It's a very well thought out study and anything we can do to 'get it out there' I believe we all should.

 

[JabaliHunter]

I hope they actually publish a copy or at least post a pdf on the web. I was hunting for it last night, but couldn't find it anywhere. Only George Monbiot's socialist drivel...

 

[andymarsh]

I hope this gets put "out there" it's important that the General Populus understand that we don't do this for the money. I run an estate in sutherland and I am the only employee, not because there is not enough work for more people but I cant afford any more. In the last 5 to 8 years I have found that all my neigbours are being squeezed by SNH to shoot more deer all for different reasons and my numbers are dropping making it harder and harder to keep my family here. Stangly I seem to be one of the last estates in the NW corner that SNH hasn't squeezed, hopefully things will change in the future.

Andy

 

[Tamus]

Red deer numbers "decimated"?

Leaving aside, for the moment, that the word actually came from Latin and literally means killing one in ten. How few deer are left now?

Is it below 300,000 ... 200,000 .. or.. 100,000 ?

I suspect/guess the number might be somewhere between 200 and 250 thousand, ie. down by about 100,000 on peak numbers... Would that be an acceptable guesstimate? ... or are there actually only a few dozen left in the wild?

 

[bogtrotter]

Think you will find the true current figure is somewhat in excess of 300,000 numbers peaked at around 400,000 a few years ago, the problem is in some areas the numbers are down but in others they are up, add in different interests in land use, and you will see that its not easy to please everyone.

From my own experience ,I am now seeing deer in areas that a few years ago you would never have seen them,
also an area comprising of several estates that I know of had to reduce their deer numbers drastically due to a large forestry planting program, at the time the estates were shouting that they were finished as far as stalking was concerned, they did in fact have a few lean years but now they are back up to taking around the same amount of stags off that they always took, [ which is sustainable] the total deer population may be less but in truth,the numbers were far to high prior to the cull.

Ponder this many people are saying that with the amount of deer being killed the future for estates and estate stalkers is bleak, which I admit may be the case in some areas, but taking Scotland as a whole, a conservative figure of 300,000 is still three times higher than it was in the mid to late sixty's, there was plenty estates letting stalking then and plenty of estate stalkers, I don't remember anyone then saying that it was not sustainable and they were in fear of there jobs.

Deer numbers have been to high for to long and need to be reduced, in some areas not all, and I say reduced not eliminated.

As I write I am watching a dozen Hinds [time 10.25 am] feeding this is not on the hill but at the edge of a busy main road that runs through the village, hunger has brought them down they are oblivious to whats going on around them traffic people walking dogs etc.

Why are they so low down and in the middle of a village? I will leave you to draw your own conclusion

 

[Salmo Salar]

Why are they so low down and in the middle of a village? I will leave you to draw your own conclusion

Perhaps areas where they previously went during winter they have been hounded from or fenced out of..... As I dont know the area you are speaking of I cannot say but thats one reason.

As for counts of deer, now and more so in the 60s how accurate are these. Certainly in the area I know well, there are many that say there were too many deer and one organisation has culled extensively since they bought the estate. But if you ask many others they would argue that there wasn't too many. I would agree with the opinion there wasn't too many. Due to this culling which is ongoing throught the year any sex, neighbouring estates are noticing a dramatic reduction in their deer numbers. And also I'd say due to the continual persecution the deer that are left are now turning up in areas where they were never seen before. And this is without doubt when a large reduction in numers has taken place.
So its not clear cut just because you see deer where they werent seen before means that there must be more there.

But hey, what do I know, I'm not some chap out of university with a degree or anything just someone brought up in an area who has seen it decimated of various species of wildlife and seemingly under the guise of regeneration/habitat management and conservation.

 

[ecoman]

Extremely well done Bambislayer. Ten gold stars !

Now this is the stuff of a sustainable and CREDIBLE defense of deer herds under proper deer management. (Not the ritual slaughter in the name of fashionable political correctness which we are witnessing in some areas at the moment). It underlines the impact the herds of red deer have had on the Northern economy and I might have missed some of Bambislayer's points in my haste, but I would also emphasize that primary schools and post offices in the more isolated places depend upon population numbers in order to justify remaining open. Even the loss of one or two pupils has meant the closure of some schools in the past, and this also led to the loss of a teaching job as-well-as the disruption to other families of primary school children and increased travel complications. (Bearing in mind the weather and the increased cost in fuel the further North you go.

On a purely pragmatic level, the conversion of the highlands away from deer herding management as a sustainable income is actually on a par with removing the reindeer herds from the Lapps. Deer stalking - along with game fishing have been two of the main sources of income and population stability for many years and it seems that we are at the mercy of those who wish to tear that stability to pieces in order to achieve their preferred wish of re-inventing a Caledonia of many hundreds of years ago.

In the fever to plant over historical deer movement lands and obtain grant money at any cost - because it is there like a sprat to be grabbed by a hungry pike and it is irresistible whether it does any good or not - no thought has been given to providing that extra bit of finance in order to shape tree enclosure fencing in order that the deer are streamed along its sides and given shelter.

Any mention of this aspect meets with a dead wall of silence by consultant foresters who are hired on to devise the best value for any given grant scheme - and it's all about taking land over for trees - NOT to provide for the entire ecology and natural habitat which is the popular platform from which to justify their every move.
On the other hand I have witnessed the department of planning at such a meeting, successfully demanding that a proposed fenceline planned to be built on the same line of the old iron one of a century ago, should instead be built with a series of zig-zags at extra expense in time, materials and grant money, "in order that people in sailing boats sailing up the inner Sound between Skye and the mainland would not be annoyed by a straight line of fencing down to the shore".
Hey ho! How to pathetically justify one's existence by inserting bovine effluent at great cost.
It has been my constant contention during my many years of attending such meetings and in my writings, that to these departmental 'meetings people', the needs of deer are regarded as a mere nuisance to be dismissed like vermin and the stalkers' advice is regarded in the same way.

Now where are we ? It's all very well saying that these tree compartments will be opened to the benefit of all, men and deer, in years to come. How many years, and will the powers-that-be at that time honour that concept ?

In the meantime, economy and population changes of serious import are liable to occur as a mere side issue of such arrogant ambitions and instead of people working the land and managing the hills, we are most likely to have fairly affluent retired people or those with holiday homes who arrive to create further complaint against the remaining deer which have been forced out of their usual winter habitat by treed land grabs, to raid gardens.

A part of my life in retirement has been engaged in jointly patrolling an area of some 15,000 acres which was fenced off by a deer fence from the rest of the peninsula in order that mixed broadleaf and coniferous trees could be planted. The politics and finance of this project are many and complex so I'll not go into that aspect, but first we have a gigantically long deer fence, then contained within that enclosed area we have trees within stock fences designed to keep out sheep and cattle.

This entire northern tip of the peninsula, once a semi-inaccessible area, was, apart from the annual deer census, a natural reservoir from which 'interesting' antler formations emerged to be added to the stalking during the rutting season, but it is now empty apart from the very occasional young stag or hind which finds a way in, (and with 22km of fencing it's not a miracle), and which are usually dealt-with speedily as they tend to roam the fenceline from shore-to-shore.

In effect, these tree compartments within the stock fences have become deserts of trees and long undergrowth vegetation. There is no provider at the top of the food chain - no deer carcass to provide the nutrients and food delivered by death - and no provider of dung and urine, nor healthy herbage cropping whilst they are alive.

No red deer carcasses and no dung - no food for foxes, martens, badgers and insects. No food for insect-eaters and beetles and nothing for feathered carrion eaters such as eagles, buzzards, ravens and crows.

The heather grows so long and rank that it discourages grouse - and there are no clearings for them either. There's little hope of spotting a scuttling vole in such thick cover so kestrels and smaller hawks or falcons are discouraged.
There have been no rabbits in this part of the world for at least two decades, and the last of those were wiped out by - presumably - martens and foxes.

What effect such dense cover has on the native reptiles I don't know as I have not thought much about it, but with the simple act of removing the biggest and most significant source of nutrient at the head of the food chain, the whole ecological balance is radically changed.

AND THE ECO BOFFINS MAKE ENDLESS CLAIMS ABOUT SELF SUSTAINABILITY. What sort of intelligence devises a single-line fence which deer can walk around to be shot on the planted side ? What sort of intelligence creates a three sided fence around a large conifer compartment with no fence along the top in order that deer can descend in the winter to be shot as marauders?

I think that the final question might be :- How can anyone sit comfortably at a meeting with people of such intelligence and hope to emerge with an honourable settlement? It was tried during the last 18 months with the FC in attendance - an agreement was made - and next morning the FC rangers were ordered out to shoot the stags, which it had agreed, would be spared for the time being until some strategy had been worked out by all concerned.

As one old statesman once said, "I smell rotten fish".

 

[JAYB]

Well said Ken, simple, logical, practical and reasonable but ultimately ignored by the people who hold sway.

John

 

[NickJ]

Well said Ken, simple, logical, practical and reasonable but ultimately ignored by the people who hold sway.

John

+1

 

[bambislayer]

Ok

Ken you may strip me of my ten gold stars!

I posted this to let people see what all the fuss was about, I didn't comment as I wanted people to read it without a debate from the outstart.

Well here goes!

It is badly written, far too much emotion and tweed clat trap.

As an economical model it's horrific. I am not a lefty or particularly keen on Andy Whitemans social ownership ideals. However the sums don't add up. This land is subsidised to the sum of around 75%, this 75% comes from a far. This subsidy relies on someones Balmorality and ability to maintain an expendable income stream.

This model sits well for those who are employed on the Estate, what about others in these rural comunities? Look what has happened to larger comunities that are reliant on one income, mining comes to mind.

The SGA has missed a trick here, there are BIG questions to be asked about the future of remote rural comunities, having these land areas under 1 ownership as a recreational area, this recreational need, often works against the needs of society, ie environmental and carbon needs.

These comunities need cash but to rely on deer is madness, what will happen if another big F&M outbreak gets into the wild deer herd?

Interestingly, on Sundays Countryfile, there was absolutly no mention of Grouse Moors killing deer! When John Craven asked Peter, "What do I need?" the answer he got was "A GOOD TWEED SUIT".

I'm sorry, this is the 21st century - wake up!

Lets actualy sit down and strategically plan exactly what we want from the land and the wildlife on it and manage it for the future, a*******g about in tweeds and a pony might be good Sunday evening tv but it's not reality.

I'm sure plenty will slate me for this but I see the bank balances of plenty Estates and see how much money comes in from SRDP, renewables etc. If the highlands are to survive then the Highlanders need to wake up and enter the 21st century and ditch the victorian "tradition".

 

[Paul at Fechan]

my big concern is not with the overall number of red deer culls across Scotland but the focuss of it in soome areas that has harsh knock on effects. Reds that move to wintering grounds through 'hostile' territory can easily get smashed which when you consider those deer might be the income for an estate spells it out plainly.

 

[cervus1981]

Well said Bambislayer. While not wanting to be overly critical of Peter Fraser, I cannot help but agree with you. Highland Estates which rely on transient populations of stags which spend the rest of the year on someone elses land represents an extremely dubious and unsustainable business model. The impression given is that these estates have suddenly become unprofitable because of recent culls. This is simply not the case, deer forests with no income other than from deer have NEVER been profitable. The SGA asked every deer forest to participate in their study but only 10 agreed! Does this say something?

There is room for everything to coexist in Scotland if all make compromises. Deer do not need to be 'Decimated' 'Smashed' 'Slaughtered' or any of the other over emotive adjectives used, to allow woodlands and other habitats to flourish. a reduction is enough. Deer ultimately benefit hugely from improved habitat and woodland shelter and approach their full biological potential rather than the undernourished pathetic creatures we see inhabiting the hill in some places. As Bambislayer suggests don't fall for the Balmorality, Brigadoon version of the Highlands which the tweed suits would like you to believe exists.

 

[ScottishDeer]

+ 1. Totally agree with Bambislayer on this one. So much land owned by so few - rich playgrounds. Keep in mind that Scotland used to have 70%+ forest cover until humans decimated it. Woodland creation by estates, FC and private forestry companies is for the greater good of the whole eco-system although I can understand how people don't see this when heavy culls take place. Also agree with bogtrotters estimate 300,000+ red deer.