Factory copper Ammo chambering issue

[tdd1989]

After a bit of advice, estate I work on has recently decided to go all non-toxic for rifle amunition. Boss has got in several hundred federal trophy copper 85gr in .243, in the estate Tikka T3x i have use of they chamber noticeably tighter than the 100gr soft points we had been using. There is very noticable resistance to get the bolt closed. On removing the bullet from the chamber you can clearly see scratches on the bullet where its been jammed in to the rifling.

Now, it has always been my understanding that this is less than ideal and can be dangerous, bullets shouldnt be used in that rifle. Seems that it isnt all that unusual either with the copper bullets.

Have shown management the issue and have been told its fine and that im basically being dramatic etc

Am i way of the mark here.

Cheers.

 

[Mike1979]

Personally I dont like any ammo that jams to lands for anything other then lead and target ammo (which you know when you chamber a round you are going to be pulling the trigger).

I have tried a few copper factory loads in the 6.5 creed and never had any jam to lands. I have just started reloading and if you follow the standard COL then they are to long for my rifle.

I would check the back of one of the fired cases for any pressure signs but for me I wouldn't want to be using them purely on the basis that getting an unfired case out may be a pain and separate...leaving you with a mess in the chamber and a bullet that needs rodding out.

 

[kenbro]

Hi tdd;
Possibly your chamber isn’t long enough for the 85 grain bullet and not really safe if the bolt is hard to close.
Could you perhaps borrow a slightly lighter (70/80) mono bullet to try for length?
Cheers, Ken.

 

[Dave_45]

There’s a few professional rifle builders on here that should steer you right.

However Barnes and most other monolithic manufacturers strongly advise against loading bullets so they touch the lands , they state at least 0.50 thou off the lands

Something to do with avoiding dangerous pressure spikes

 

[Heym SR20]

Have you given the rifle a good clean? How do they shoot?

Tolerances on factory ammo and on chambers do have wiggle room and it may be that the factory ammo is on the long edge of tolerance, whilst the chamber is on the tight side.

Does the ammo shoot well?. Are you getting pressure signs?

If it doesn’t work, change it. Or use in another rifle.

 

[tdd1989]

Hi tdd;
Possibly your chamber isn’t long enough for the 85 grain bullet and not really safe if the bolt is hard to close.
Could you perhaps borrow a slightly lighter (70/80) mono bullet to try for length?
Cheers, Ke

This is what i had thought, out of the way a bit here so not much chance of borrowing bullets.

 

[tdd1989]

Have you given the rifle a good clean? How do they shoot?

Tolerances on factory ammo and on chambers do have wiggle room and it may be that the factory ammo is on the long edge of tolerance, whilst the chamber is on the tight side.

Does the ammo shoot well?. Are you getting pressure signs?

If it doesn’t work, change it. Or use in another rifle.

Yes thoroughly cleaned.

Shoot well at 100 then all over the place passed about 150. Some are ok others not so much.

They actually cycle well in an older t3 i have. Its shot out unfortunately. I dont have the option to change the ammo.

 

[Dave_45]

This is what i had thought, out of the way a bit here so not much chance of borrowing bullets.

Are you in kintyre

 

[Heym SR20]

Yes thoroughly cleaned.

Shoot well at 100 then all over the place passed about 150. Some are ok others not so much.

They actually cycle well in an older t3 i have. Its shot out unfortunately. I dont have the option to change

Mmm. You will need to explain to the boss that rifles are finicky and all have individual preferences for ammo. Buying in bulk an untested ammo brand is not necessarily a good idea.

If I was in your position I would cycle the ammo though the rifle, and put any hard to chamber to one side and use the rest.

You know that the limit is 150 yards and thus keep the ranges short. And again you will need to explain this to the boss. Remember, by the sounds of it, you are employed for your expertise as a stalker and this includes your knowledge of rifles etc as well as just management of deer.

Also this is not a “copper” thing - rifles always have preferences. My 243 shot RWS 100gn T Mantles very well. Norma 100gn was like a shotgun, ditto Federal. Then RWS changed their 100gn load, bullet became softer and loaded deeper - they then didn’t work as well.

 

[Andyquadra]

When you are shooting 100hrain out of a .243, they prefer flat base bullets. 100 grain boat tail ones can be too long to stabilise.

85grain copper probably wants 1in9 twist or faster to stabilise. Having said that, my T3X shoots wapiti 85grain very well and it shouldn't.

 

[tdd1989]

Are you in kintyre

Not far away. Closer to Tarbert

 

[tdd1989]

Mmm. You will need to explain to the boss that rifles are finicky and all have individual preferences for ammo. Buying in bulk an untested ammo brand is not necessarily a good idea.

If I was in your position I would cycle the ammo though the rifle, and put any hard to chamber to one side and use the rest.

You know that the limit is 150 yards and thus keep the ranges short. And again you will need to explain this to the boss. Remember, by the sounds of it, you are employed for your expertise as a stalker and this includes your knowledge of rifles etc as well as just management of deer.

Also this is not a “copper” thing - rifles always have preferences. My 243 shot RWS 100gn T Mantles very well. Norma 100gn was like a shotgun, ditto Federal. Then RWS changed their 100gn load, bullet became softer and loaded deeper - they then didn’t work as well.

Thanks, yeah I know it can happen with lead as well never had such resistance on a bolt before and figured it was just the copper being slightly longer and different shape. Have never shot match bullets through a 243 though.

Cheers.

 

[Dave_45]

Not far away. Closer to Tarbert

I’ve a few pals about there

Try Barnes 80gr

 

[muddy42]

You say you have cleaned, but how well? The best is a bronze chamber brush or a series of bronze shotgun brushes 12, 20, 28 or even smaller to get the front of the chamber. And plug the chamber somehow with tissue paper soaked in a solvent of your choice. repeat again and again, its amazing the gunk you get out.

 

[seedawood]

Not just a copper problem. I had the same thing with Winshyster 55gr lead in the days when I shot a heavy barrel Rem700 .223. Couldn't extract an unfired round without leaving the bullet stuck in the barrel. Change brands.

 

[jb1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you say you have land marks left on any extracted rounds. So no amount if cleaning will prevent that
Options are obviously limited as you have been gifted the ammunition. You could get someone to seat them deeper ?

 

[Shootgun]

When you are shooting 100hrain out of a .243, they prefer flat base bullets. 100 grain boat tail ones can be too long to stabilise.

85grain copper probably wants 1in9 twist or faster to stabilise. Having said that, my T3X shoots wapiti 85grain very well and it shouldn't.

My Sauer 505 in .243 shoots any flat nose copper bullet exceptionally well. I'm using wapiti 85grain HP as well, the ballistic tip ones group lik a shotgun.
Having said that, i have tried Fox rounds as well, but i couln't close the bolt...

 

[shakey jake]

Not saying this is a great idea, but yesterday i resized 80 223 rounds for a mate as they would chamber in his rifle.
Removed the primer extractor from the resizing die and did it out side.
All good the rounds where slightly over size for his chamber but went back fine.
Tried reseating the bullets but that didnt solve it

 

[UpNorthMI]

I really like to run ammo through an ammo checker, particularly for reloads. I had a problem about 2 years ago with an expensive 30-06 double rifle, I purchased several boxes of different ammo to test with it. I was having problems closing the barrels smoothly on some factory new premium Federal ammo, turns out that 4 rounds out of 20 would not seat in the ammo checker. Lyman make multi caliber versions like the photo below and single caliber versions.

I'm tending to stick with Barnes TTSX and TSX for most of my copper shooting, typically stepping one weight down in normal lead bullet weights to gain a little velocity for expansion. Their factory ammo is very good but expensive like all other options.

 

[Andyquadra]

My Sauer 505 in .243 shoots any flat nose copper bullet exceptionally well. I'm using wapiti 85grain HP as well, the ballistic tip ones group lik a shotgun.
Having said that, i have tried Fox rounds as well, but i couln't close the bolt...

I use the wapiti hp and they are spot on. Got some ballistic tip to try, but not got round to then yet