Bloody magpies!

[LuckyEddie]

How robust is the magpie population?
The reason given for the Welsh ban is that it had declined between 25 and 50%. If you look at most of the country, the biggest threats birds face is not predators, but intensive farming, garden birds are doing ok, farm birds are declining. Under those circumstances, maybe the magpies on farmland do make a difference.
I don't know, maybe they do and maybe they don't.
Predation does definitely affect wild birds shoots and sensitive populations, Im not arguing otherwise, but Im not convinced that magpies have any real impact on healthy bird populations. There are just too many places the predators and prey are left to their own devices and the birds are doing fine.
Wales seemed to be a perfect study, you have a clear before and after date and recent RSPB survey data. If magpies have an effect we should get clear evidence as they benefit from protection and their population builds.
A direct comparison with English and Scots data should be fairly straightforward.

I grew up in Angus, Scotland

Until the Air Weapons License was introduced, I think I saw one magpie in about 40+ years.
None in Dundee or the surrounding areas.
Five years after the license was introduced, they had spread throughout the area.

We have a big garden with decent woodland adjacent (or did until the landowner took umbrage at the Council and chopped the trees down last year).
My mother is a 90 and not well educated as she was very young and lived on a small holding in Poland at the end of the war.
Even she noticed a decline in bird song once the magpies arrived.

If a someone like her notices, then there must be an issue.

I also remember reading a survey that state the magpies had killed of the blackbirds in a couple of locations due to over predation.

I’ll try a and find that survey.

 

[25 Sharps]

I absolutely get what you’re saying, I’m genuinely interested in what the effect of the ban is on non game farm and garden birds.
On game birds I accept that there’s a need to control them, I’m just not so sure that they have much of an impact on non game species.
They do take a tithe, but nothing that a robust population can’t deal with. That’s my experience. YMMV.

The issues for the non game birds are the additional pressures put on them by modern agriculture and urban spread. Loss of habitat and food means they are no longer a robust population so the added pressures put on by corvid predation exacerbates the issue.

 

[Dunwaters]

The issues for the non game birds are the additional pressures put on them by modern agriculture and urban spread. Loss of habitat and food means they are no longer a robust population so the added pressures put on by corvid predation exacerbates the issue.

So why are we scapegoating the maggers?
Farmland and farming practices have changed out of all recognition in my area over the last 40 years, it’s a bit rich to blame the corvids for being better adapted to an environment that we have created and sustain.
The situation here is that we effectively “ ranch “ pheasant and partridge, no problem with that, everyone who needs a predictable return does, but it disguises the collapse of wild populations, and not just game birds.
My area is down around 90% of insects over the last 25 years, that protein is the Lynch pin of successful chick rearing in the wild.
You can see the effects in bat, warbler and hirundine populations, they’re mostly gone and it had nothing to do with magpies.
We need to have some serious conversations, this year my Apples, Berberis, Lilac and Cyanotis are silent, the bees are just not there. Neither are the butterflies.
Again, I don’t have an answer, but I know for sure that magpies are not the principal problem.

 

[shakey jake]

So why are we scapegoating the maggers?
Farmland and farming practices have changed out of all recognition in my area over the last 40 years, it’s a bit rich to blame the corvids for being better adapted to an environment that we have created and sustain.
The situation here is that we effectively “ ranch “ pheasant and partridge, no problem with that, everyone who needs a predictable return does, but it disguises the collapse of wild populations, and not just game birds.
My area is down around 90% of insects over the last 25 years, that protein is the Lynch pin of successful chick rearing in the wild.
You can see the effects in bat, warbler and hirundine populations, they’re mostly gone and it had nothing to do with magpies.
We need to have some serious conversations, this year my Apples, Berberis, Lilac and Cyanotis are silent, the bees are just not there. Neither are the butterflies.
Again, I don’t have an answer, but I know for sure that magpies are not the principal problem.

By hirundine do you mean leech?
Never heard the word before and cant find a meaning that links

 

[shakey jake]

So why are we scapegoating the maggers?
Farmland and farming practices have changed out of all recognition in my area over the last 40 years, it’s a bit rich to blame the corvids for being better adapted to an environment that we have created and sustain.
The situation here is that we effectively “ ranch “ pheasant and partridge, no problem with that, everyone who needs a predictable return does, but it disguises the collapse of wild populations, and not just game birds.
My area is down around 90% of insects over the last 25 years, that protein is the Lynch pin of successful chick rearing in the wild.
You can see the effects in bat, warbler and hirundine populations, they’re mostly gone and it had nothing to do with magpies.
We need to have some serious conversations, this year my Apples, Berberis, Lilac and Cyanotis are silent, the bees are just not there. Neither are the butterflies.
Again, I don’t have an answer, but I know for sure that magpies are not the principal problem.

For once i agree with you, insect number are very low.
Honey bees i dont count as they are farmed and population density can vary massivly.
We have 5 colonies in the orchard and i suspect 2 will be split this weekend.
Im not sure what could be causing the massive decline, i would suspect multi reason.
In pest control the most persistant chemicals are pretty much gone.
Flea treatments could be an issue.
Im not sure the modern trend insecticide treating clothes is a good idea but i dont stalk in high tick areas.

 

[25 Sharps]

So why are we scapegoating the maggers?
Farmland and farming practices have changed out of all recognition in my area over the last 40 years, it’s a bit rich to blame the corvids for being better adapted to an environment that we have created and sustain.
The situation here is that we effectively “ ranch “ pheasant and partridge, no problem with that, everyone who needs a predictable return does, but it disguises the collapse of wild populations, and not just game birds.
My area is down around 90% of insects over the last 25 years, that protein is the Lynch pin of successful chick rearing in the wild.
You can see the effects in bat, warbler and hirundine populations, they’re mostly gone and it had nothing to do with magpies.
We need to have some serious conversations, this year my Apples, Berberis, Lilac and Cyanotis are silent, the bees are just not there. Neither are the butterflies.
Again, I don’t have an answer, but I know for sure that magpies are not the principal problem.

I’m not scapegoating the magpies, am I? I simply said that they are an added pressure on a songbird population that is already struggling.

You yourself said that a robust population could cope with the tithe taken by predators, the trouble is the populations are not robust enough due human pressures.

 

[Bo Diddley]

By hirundine do you mean leech?

Swallows, House Martins & Swifts... House Martins are an awesome band as well

 

[shakey jake]

Swallows, House Martins & Swifts... House Martins are an awesome band as well

Thanks, that makes alot more sense

 

[shakey jake]

Thanks, that makes alot more sense

Not swifts apparently, just swallows and martins

 

[Dunwaters]

By hirundine do you mean leech?
Never heard the word before and cant find a meaning that links

Swifts and swallows.
Maybe I got it wrong?

 

[Dunwaters]

I’m not scapegoating the magpies, am I? I simply said that they are an added pressure on a songbird population that is already struggling.

You yourself said that a robust population could cope with the tithe taken by predators, the trouble is the populations are not robust enough due human pressures.

I don’t have an answer, I think it’s as difficult to predict as the weather, but maybe we would be better off starting with minor changes to the big factor staring us in the face, food production and food production policies, rather than the minor issues of lead ammunition and magpies .
We are dealing with the symptoms, not the disease. I don’t think we can fix it.

 

[shakey jake]

Swifts and swallows.
Maybe I got it wrong?

According to google only applies to swallows and martins being perching birds, swifts are similar but unrelated.
I only found this out today, so willing to be wrong

 

[25 Sharps]

I don’t have an answer, I think it’s as difficult to predict as the weather, but maybe we would be better off starting with minor changes to the big factor staring us in the face, food production and food production policies, rather than the minor issues of lead ammunition and magpies .
We are dealing with the symptoms, not the disease. I don’t think we can fix it.

Not whilst there’s so many mouths to feed, agreed.