Schmidt Bender Pricing

[BelMali]

Like most people, I assume, I started out with a basic rifle/scope setup and because well we like shiny things I've "upgraded" over the years. Now did what I started with need to be "upgraded" probably not.

I'm in the market this year to upgrade my optics, due to a bit of financial good luck I don't want to waste.

Like most people, again I assume, I'm looking at Zeiss, Kahles, Steiner and S&B....

Can I just ask what exactly the good people at Schmidt and Bender are smoking?

The price point to feature set, I feel, is lacking in their hunting line up, and tbh their more modestly priced PMII line up models(3-12x50) aswell.

From shopping, tyre kicking, online and comparing specs to the other brands listed above and some not, the feature set of their hunting line up and the price they have set them at seems to me to be asking a bit much.

Anyways just a bit of a pointless rant I guess.

Before anyone wades in I have the €2500(£2100) to €3750(£3180) msrp for the Meta line, and it is a very attractive scope but given I could pick up a V8, or a Helia, or Ranger 8, not saying thats apples to apples now, I don't think S&B glass is that good.... maybe I'm wrong.

 

[long_range_rob]

I have several PM2’s, a Precision Hunter and a zenith. Optically they’re all fab, so are Swarovski but I prefer the build quality of S&B as for price you’re a long time dead so might as well enjoy your life

 

[The Optimist]

S&B scopes are excellent, and I have found them to be very reliable. I have three PMIIs But… IMHO Kahles scopes have caught up. I no longer purchase S&B - the waiting time to get the exact spec you want is too long and as the OP says, the prices are through the roof (although the same could be said for everything at the moment). Perhaps Kahles scopes are not quite as tough, but as I’m not about to go into battle it doesn’t matter to me. The field of view on the new Kahles scopes and the FFP reticle offering is outstanding. I am sure there are other brands that potentially offer better VFM. The thing is I have had my PMIIs for decades now and never, ever had a problem. They’re used a lot for long distance target shooting (1000m +) with long strings in all weathers. I have changed rifles but never my glass.

 

[Bowland blades]

The issue today is the premium makers have started Bumping off fixing expensive rifle Scopes, Binos etc . After being told my lifetime backup could not be fully fixed as they " didn't" keep the parts now. About twenty years from purchase .
I bet they all do that now when its much more than a quick clean

 

[suburban bushwacker]

New players entered the market, and it looks like S&B felt the need to defend their brand by being as, or more, expensive. March are an unbelievable price and while there are many great things to say about them, S&B they aint. ZCO are amazing but expensive, the Meta range are (theoretically) just a little bit brighter which may or may not justify the price. I did my scope shopping a while ago, if I were to buy again it'd be S&B meta's all round and keep the ZCO on my target rifle.

 

[Leec6.5]

Like most people, I assume, I started out with a basic rifle/scope setup and because well we like shiny things I've "upgraded" over the years. Now did what I started with need to be "upgraded" probably not.

I'm in the market this year to upgrade my optics, due to a bit of financial good luck I don't want to waste.

Like most people, again I assume, I'm looking at Zeiss, Kahles, Steiner and S&B....

Can I just ask what exactly the good people at Schmidt and Bender are smoking?

The price point to feature set, I feel, is lacking in their hunting line up, and tbh their more modestly priced PMII line up models(3-12x50) aswell.

From shopping, tyre kicking, online and comparing specs to the other brands listed above and some not, the feature set of their hunting line up and the price they have set them at seems to me to be asking a bit much.

Anyways just a bit of a pointless rant I guess.

Before anyone wades in I have the €2500(£2100) to €3750(£3180) msrp for the Meta line, and it is a very attractive scope but given I could pick up a V8, or a Helia, or Ranger 8, not saying thats apples to apples now, I don't think S&B glass is that good.... maybe I'm wrong.

I’ve used nothing but Schmidt Bender for no less than 18 years!

And yes you are wrong, the quality is A1 and you’ll pay more for a swaro for the same quality but get a better warranty for S&B

When you’ve thrashed an 8x56 Hungarian S&B as hard as I have for 15 years you will know what quality is, until you have reached that point your opinion is just hot air!

 

[BelMali]

I have several PM2’s, a Precision Hunter and a zenith. Optically they’re all fab, so are Swarovski but I prefer the build quality of S&B as for price you’re a long time dead so might as well enjoy your life

A fair point, you can't take it with you but I suppose my point is about value for money, no matter how much you are spending.

S&B scopes are excellent, and I have found them to be very reliable. I have three PMIIs But… IMHO Kahles scopes have caught up. I no longer purchase S&B - the waiting time to get the exact spec you want is too long and as the OP says, the prices are through the roof (although the same could be said for everything at the moment). Perhaps Kahles scopes are not quite as tough, but as I’m not about to go into battle it doesn’t matter to me. The field of view on the new Kahles scopes and the FFP reticle offering is outstanding. I am sure there are other brands that potentially offer better VFM. The thing is I have had my PMIIs for decades now and never, ever had a problem. They’re used a lot for long distance target shooting (1000m +) with long strings in all weathers. I have changed rifles but never my glass.

Ive never owned a PMII, this is my first dip into the price point of the market, but ive used both 3-12/5-25 PMIIs and they are a great optic but I agree other manufacturers have caught up so I don't understand how S&B are doing their pricing vs other manufacturers.

The issue today is the premium makers have started Bumping off fixing expensive rifle Scopes, Binos etc . After being told my lifetime backup could not be fully fixed as they " didn't" keep the parts now. About twenty years from purchase .
I bet they all do that now when its much more than a quick clean

I'm not sure what manufacturer you're talking about but lifetime warranties seem to be a thing of the past, and you would think when you're dropping 3-4k they could do bettrr than limited or 10 year warranties.

New players entered the market, and it looks like S&B felt the need to defend their brand by being as, or more, expensive. March are an unbelievable price and while there are many great things to say about them, S&B they aint. ZCO are amazing but expensive, the Meta range are (theoretically) just a little bit brighter which may or may not justify the price. I did my scope shopping a while ago, if I were to buy again it'd be S&B meta's all round and keep the ZCO on my target rifle.

You would think, maybe Im wrong they could defend their brand by being at a price point with a festure set and durability more people could scope their rifle with them.

I’ve used nothing but Schmidt Bender for no less than 18 years!

And yes you are wrong, the quality is A1 and you’ll pay more for a swaro for the same quality but get a better warranty for S&B

When you’ve thrashed an 8x56 Hungarian S&B as hard as I have for 15 years you will know what quality is, until you have reached that point your opinion is just hot air!

I never said S&B weren't good quality, my point was more to do with feature set at the price point.

Tbh a 8x56 hungarian, fantastic optic btw, isn't the market I'm talking about.

 

[suburban bushwacker]

You would think, maybe Im wrong they could defend their brand by being at a price point with a festure set and durability more people could scope their rifle with them.

Durability is a difficult one to prove, the customer often doesnt know they are experiencing it.

Sell more at a lower price point, is a race to the bottom which you can never win against the brands that manufacture in china.
charge more, and defend the brand, innovate to differentiate, is the state of European manufacturing. S&B are actually the perfect example.
S&B meta have 96% light transmission even ZCO have 90% can't remember what swaro say these days. that's a small difference that some of us will pay for, the people that won't can rattle on about how great Vortex's warranty is. I've never looked through the really high end Vortex, every one of the vortex scopes and in particular the binoculars have been Meh.

It might be a case of choose a reticle you like and buy the scope that comes with it. For a dial-able scope the THLR design is fantastic, there's a point-and-shoot design that I have on a Kahles that ZCO offer on their Hunter range which I think is perfect, your taste may differ.
If I had your budget for a new stalking scope it would be a Meta, if I stumbled upon a used one a ZCO Hunter would be a very close second. If I wanted a target/hunting cross over from new it would be a ZCO 420H, if it was a secondhand target/hunting cross over it would be a Minox THLR.
Scopes are nice to have, and cheaper than buying G&T's for inappropriate MILFs.

 

[Leec6.5]

A fair point, you can't take it with you but I suppose my point is about value for money, no matter how much you are spending.


Ive never owned a PMII, this is my first dip into the price point of the market, but ive used both 3-12/5-25 PMIIs and they are a great optic but I agree other manufacturers have caught up so I don't understand how S&B are doing their pricing vs other manufacturers.

I'm not sure what manufacturer you're talking about but lifetime warranties seem to be a thing of the past, and you would think when you're dropping 3-4k they could do bettrr than limited or 10 year warranties.

You would think, maybe Im wrong they could defend their brand by being at a price point with a festure set and durability more people could scope their rifle with them.

I never said S&B weren't good quality, my point was more to do with feature set at the price point.

Tbh a 8x56 hungarian, fantastic optic btw, isn't the market I'm talking about.

I’ve now got the long range hunter, with the BC turret another excellent scope

 

[BelMali]

Durability is a difficult one to prove, the customer often doesnt know they are experiencing it.

Sell more at a lower price point, is a race to the bottom which you can never win against the brands that manufacture in china.
charge more, and defend the brand, innovate to differentiate, is the state of European manufacturing. S&B are actually the perfect example.
S&B meta have 96% light transmission even ZCO have 90% can't remember what swaro say these days. that's a small difference that some of us will pay for, the people that won't can rattle on about how great Vortex's warranty is. I've never looked through the really high end Vortex, every one of the vortex scopes and in particular the binoculars have been Meh.

It might be a case of choose a reticle you like and buy the scope that comes with it. For a dial-able scope the THLR design is fantastic, there's a point-and-shoot design that I have on a Kahles that ZCO offer on their Hunter range which I think is perfect, your taste may differ.
If I had your budget for a new stalking scope it would be a Meta, if I stumbled upon a used one a ZCO Hunter would be a very close second. If I wanted a target/hunting cross over from new it would be a ZCO 420H, if it was a secondhand target/hunting cross over it would be a Minox THLR.
Scopes are nice to have, and cheaper than buying G&T's for inappropriate MILFs.

Durability is difficult as it can nothing is bomb proof.

Completely agree on selling more at a lower price point re China, its just, unless you've a spare 10k for the MilSpec PMIIs, most people are buying the best they can with what their wallet affords, and if you can offer a better product for the same or less than your competitors but I suppose thats not how it works. And I agree offering 96%(on paper) transmission through a 42mm lens is an achievement in R&D considering the scopes with a 56mm lens that dont come close.

As it happens, I own Vortex as it was the best I could afford at the time And the warranty played a factor.

I am actually looking at the ZC420H aswell. I look for features and function although, form does play a factor.

 

[seedawood]

I've got at least three S&Bs well over 30 years old and still working perfectly. Think value for money rather than price.

 

[Leec6.5]

To be fair to them I’ve never in the 25 odd years I’ve been stalking heard of a Schmidt / old swaro / old zeiss go wrong, only the modern versions of the swaro / zeiss I’ve heard of problems.

Open to be proven wrong BUT I’ve never heard of a Schmidt Bender go back for warranty issues

Pay your money and take your choice, but I’m firmly in the Schmidt camp

 

[BelMali]

I've got at least three S&Bs well over 30 years old and still working perfectly. Think value for money rather than price.

Yep thats absolutely fair, buy once cry once, which is wjat I am trying to do this time tbh

To be fair to them I’ve never in the 25 odd years I’ve been stalking heard of a Schmidt / old swaro / old zeiss go wrong, only the modern versions of the swaro / zeiss I’ve heard of problems.

Open to be proven wrong BUT I’ve never heard of a Schmidt Bender go back for warranty issues

Pay your money and take your choice, but I’m firmly in the Schmidt camp

Not knocking you Lee, I know S&B IS a quality optic, its just when I started thinking about upgrading I looked at features/functions first then price. Its not that I didnt know Schmidt were expensive, it was just how expensive they had gotten.

 

[Leec6.5]

Yep thats absolutely fair, buy once cry once, which is wjat I am trying to do this time tbh

Not knocking you Lee, I know S&B IS a quality optic, its just when I started thinking about upgrading I looked at features/functions first then price. Its not that I didnt know Schmidt were expensive, it was just how expensive they had gotten.

Cheaper than swaro!

When I was looking for a variable I was looking about and to be fair I wouldn’t buy other than the top 3 brand for scopes Leica should never had gone there and don’t even come into it as far as I’m concerned!

My loyalty and experience told me where to head, like it’s already been said, buy once cry once!

Moan about the price all you want, their quality / reliability speaks for itself and justifies the price.

 

[Leec6.5]

To be fair what and why do you need all the features?

For stalking -

Illuminated reticle - not needed
BC turret - not needed if you know your bullet drops

That’s about it, if your planning on target shooting more fool you

 

[BenBhoy]

bit of financial good luck I don't want to waste.

Stick it in an ISA.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Another SD Member suffering "Gear Acquisition Syndrome"!

K

 

[andyk]

Have a look second hand?

I’d be really wary of buying a new European scope at the moment, the bottom appears to have fallen out of the market as people switch to digital (another debate for another time). You see Schmidt Polars going for less than £1.5k second hand now.

I’ve tried Swaro z6, Zeiss V6 and various Schmidt and now I stick with Schmidt. My view was that the glass on the Swaro was exceptional but the build didn’t feel as solid as either the Zeiss or Schmidt. I have to say I liked the V6, with the exception of the lack of parallax on the 2.5-15 model which leads to a blurry image on 12 mag or higher when using it at ranges much away from 100m.

 

[BelMali]

Cheaper than swaro!

When I was looking for a variable I was looking about and to be fair I wouldn’t buy other than the top 3 brand for scopes Leica should never had gone there and don’t even come into it as far as I’m concerned!

My loyalty and experience told me where to head, like it’s already been said, buy once cry once!

Moan about the price all you want, their quality / reliability speaks for itself and justifies the price.

Yea S&B are cheaper than Swaro, I know are the bee knees of glass but Ive never wanted a Swaro tbh, and no hate to anyone who does btw.

To be fair what and why do you need all the features?

For stalking -

Illuminated reticle - not needed
BC turret - not needed if you know your bullet drops

That’s about it, if your planning on target shooting more fool you

Without catching a few strays, I shoot Farm and Hill so I have use for both Illum, BDC turrets and parrallax. And the occassional fox at distance that Im hapoy to dial.

Stick it in an ISA.

I could but I like shiny things

Another SD Member suffering "Gear Acquisition Syndrome"!

K

Yea possibly but at the same time isn't it nice that theres options for everyone.

Have a look second hand?

I’d be really wary of buying a new European scope at the moment, the bottom appears to have fallen out of the market as people switch to digital (another debate for another time). You see Schmidt Polars going for less than £1.5k second hand now.

I’ve tried Swaro z6, Zeiss V6 and various Schmidt and now I stick with Schmidt. My view was that the glass on the Swaro was exceptional but the build didn’t feel as solid as either the Zeiss or Schmidt. I have to say I liked the V6, with the exception of the lack of parallax on the 2.5-15 model which leads to a blurry image on 12 mag or higher when using it at ranges much away from 100m.

Im in Ireland, secondhand market does exist but its small.

UK ITAR rules prevent me buying anything over 9x off the FS section.
I could buy off an RFD if they were setup for it but afaik the paperwork after Brexit is more hassle than its worth to them.

Day/Night NV and Thermal are classed as a firearm here(Rep of Ireland), rolls eyes, so they havent quite effected the market like maybe in the UK

 

[Klenchblaize]

I was only pulling the Op's chain as who am I to criticise the acquisition of Big Boys Toys!

K