Hare coursers cause havoc again.

[Bo Diddley]

Don't know if you remember the artist Vic Granger? I would occasionally walk/enter his dogs in exchange for one of his prints. One day, I wasn't paying attention, one of his dogs joined in a course when I should have been holding its lead - followed the two coursing dogs with its lead trailing behind it............................Never been so embarrassed

Yes, I remember Vic Granger.
You reminded me of the time I took my mother along to a summertime Lurcher & Terrier show at Litcham. I entered my Lakeland terrier into the terrier racing, mother looked after Alpha, my Lurcher, standing at the trackside watching... terriers all went off like rockets chasing the rabbit skin... Alpha took off as well, with mother holding onto the lead... she face-planted into the grass .
I entered my Deerhound Greyhound x Whippet mash-up Sadie into the race at Swaffham Greyhound Stadium. The hare went off round the track, and Sadie jumped over the barrier and cut it off on the other side... Great fun back in the day, it's all a bit serious now.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Yes, I remember Vic Granger.
You reminded me of the time I took my mother along to a summertime Lurcher & Terrier show at Litcham. I entered my Lakeland terrier into the terrier racing, mother looked after Alpha, my Lurcher, standing at the trackside watching... terriers all went off like rockets chasing the rabbit skin... Alpha took off as well, with mother holding onto the lead... she face-planted into the grass .
I entered my Deerhound Greyhound x Whippet mash-up Sadie into the race at Swaffham Greyhound Stadium. The hare went off round the track, and Sadie jumped over the barrier and cut it off on the other side... Great fun back in the day, it's all a bit serious now.

Yes, so many funny and embarrassing moments. Life is a serious as you make it

 

[finnbear270]

"The hare went off round the track, and Sadie jumped over the barrier and cut it off on the other side..."
Bet that caused a few belly laughs, & possibly a few cash offers.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Weighing it all up...............I think the teckels have probably caused more embarrassing moments than the running dogs

 

[finnbear270]

Weighing it all up...............I think the teckels have probably caused more embarrassing moments than the running dogs

That's a given.

 

[Bo Diddley]

"The hare went off round the track, and Sadie jumped over the barrier and cut it off on the other side..."
Bet that caused a few belly laughs, & possibly a few cash offers.

She even surprised me doing that, she wasn't the brightest dog, but after the initial red face I took the praise a few of the older chaps offered... crikey I was probably 19 at the time, 40 years ago .. young and carefree.

 

[TringSaint]

The "sporting chance" argument doesn't hold water on a deer stalking forum. We don't chase our deer and shoot them on the run. That would be frowned on in the UK, would it not? The sole aim of stalking is to give the deer as little chance of avoiding a clean death as possible. Unsporting?

Betting on sporting events is quite normal though, isn't it? Horse racing, for example. So you can't really say that the fact that gambling takes places automatically renders something "unsporting". Unpalatable may be, but I don't think it defines whether or not an activity is "sporting".

I do try to be sporting when I’m stalking deer.
I can kill deer without issue, but there is a point of trying to do it the ‘right’ way, for me at least. If that means I leave an animal alone because I have already shot two, then so be it. Maybe I will shoot it the next time, maybe it will live happily for the rest of it’s natural life - who knows!

If you want to herd them into a pen and shoot them at point blank range then go for it. That’s not for me.

Same goes for dogs. Coursing was not designed to kill hares. The hare was there to test two dogs and to see which one was faster and more agile than the other. Any hares that died did so usually because the slipper let the dogs go too soon or the hare made a mistake.

That is totally different to the illegal coursing we see today which is all about the dog catching the hare and the betting is illegal, so funds other crime.

If you are ok with that then crack on, but for me it’s not sporting, ethical or legal and should be stamped out just like any other illegal activity that supports organised crime.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I do try to be sporting when I’m stalking deer.
I can kill deer without issue, but there is a point of trying to do it the ‘right’ way, for me at least. If that means I leave an animal alone because I have already shot two, then so be it. Maybe I will shoot it the next time, maybe it will live happily for the rest of it’s natural life - who knows!

If you want to herd them into a pen and shoot them at point blank range then go for it. That’s not for me.

Same goes for dogs. Coursing was not designed to kill hares. The hare was there to test two dogs and to see which one was faster and more agile than the other. Any hares that died did so usually because the slipper let the dogs go too soon or the hare made a mistake.

That is totally different to the illegal coursing we see today which is all about the dog catching the hare and the betting is illegal, so funds other crime.

If you are ok with that then crack on, but for me it’s not sporting, ethical or legal and should be stamped out just like any other illegal activity that supports organised crime.

I remember a greyhound called Peasedown Erin. Amazing dog, blistering pace, would often catch and kill on the run up. I think there were some stats that it caught and killed a number of hares within 20 seconds. Not necessarily good for gaining points on turns but for pace and drive - quite a dog.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I remember a greyhound called Peasedown Erin. Amazing dog, blistering pace, would often catch and kill on the run up. I think there were some stats that it caught and killed a number of hares within 20 seconds. Not necessarily good for gaining points on turns but for pace and drive - quite a dog.

 

[Bo Diddley]

John Bromily, there's a blast from the past.

@TringSaint
It's difficult to square everything, especially emotive when animals are involved. I've taken the story from the book "Heaven in a Rage" before:
A man enters the Tavern for a pint of ale with his dog. The dog sits under the table while he gets his pint. A while later, a rat runs across the floor, and all the men pick up their sticks to try and clobber it. The chap with the dog gets a lucky hit and kills the rodent, everyone cheers and slaps him on the back. He gets a free pint. Next evening he goes to the Tavern again for a pint, the dog creeps out from under the table, and the chap gives it a whack with his stick and tells it to "Get back under" The whole Tavern is outraged... why the difference. The life of a rat, or the feelings of a dog.

My brother was headkeeper on one of the three estates that hosted the Anglia Cup. Immediately after the coursing was over, they had organised hare shoots to kill as many as possible, only to stop the plague of pi-keys from running amok over the estate after the cup was hosted. So for the hare it mattered not if it was caught by some 29" Greyhound and killed with one bite, or possibly blasted with an ounce or more of #5 shot. I expect a few limped away to die in the rough with a few pellets in the guts.

 

[kenbro]

I fear the repercussions would be severe, I saw barns torched just for chasing them off land, never mind shooting there prize coursing dog

I knew (He now deceased) a local lad who’s dog was shot on a farm in town while chasing sheep perhaps 50+ years ago.
Sometime later the contents of the stone barn were set on fire.
A lot of damage done as farmer couldn’t phone (Pre cellular) Fire Service as the phone wires were cut.
Luckily nobody injured.
That lad who caused the fire went home and burned all the clothes he’d been wearing that night at his allotment then took a bath and went to bed.
Wasn’t long before the police found a suspect as the farmer knew of a few local lads with dogs.
This lad was taken in for questioning but didn’t crack and they even had forensics examine the clothes he wore when arrested.
No charges were brought against him even though everyone who knew him knew he was guilty.
The lad was a short skinny kid who wouldn’t have dared to confront the farmer but he was hard as nails.
Last I heard he went as a £10 Pom and died of natural (Karma?) causes at a comparatively young age.
Kb.

 

[TringSaint]

I remember a greyhound called Peasedown Erin. Amazing dog, blistering pace, would often catch and kill on the run up. I think there were some stats that it caught and killed a number of hares within 20 seconds. Not necessarily good for gaining points on turns but for pace and drive - quite a dog.

Some were like rocket ships - I helped train Bob Ennalls’s dogs and we had one like that.
Some of the worst for catching the hares were the saluki’s, as they don’t tire as quickly and the hares would run out of puff

 

[Bo Diddley]

Hunting with dogs is like a drug to some people. I love it, but I have met dozens of lads who are on another level and leave me for dust.
A chap I met a couple of years ago, Mick Creavy, didn't get his first job until he was 26. He had a terrier given to him as a 10-year-old lad, and that was his fate. However, he ended up keeping running dogs. He was into match coursing, they would leave at first light and spend all day coursing wherever they could get away with it, until either the old bill turned up or the farmers ran them off. An interesting character to chat to.

I was out most nights in the winter lamping with my dogs. I'd get an hour's kip after tea, and then be off until the lead-acid batteries ran out of juice.
I remember it blowing up a hoolie one evening and made sure the batteries were ready to go. It was absolutely carnage out that night. The rabbits were flooded out of their burrows and sitting on the meadows looking for a dry patch. I lamped until the batteries died, one of them went up in a puff of fumes, the water had short-circuited it. I ended up dropping the rabbits off in clumps to pick up the next day with the van.
Anyhow, I woke up the next day, put the TV on and the news was all about the great storm the night before.. 1987. I'll always remember that one!

 

[LuckyEddie]

The article is currently being narrated on BBC Radio 4.

Although I’ve never followed a hunt or a course, I understand it.
Hopefully much the same way the late Robin Page did.

For me it is no different than watching African wild dogs or a pack of wolves hunting.
Very few prey die instantly and with the wild dogs a number are eaten alive.

If it came down to it how would people react if bets were taken on how long the prey of a wild dog survived?

I’m not a great lover of the mass released pheasants, but I put my name to it, even though I gnarled me to do so since that camp effectively mucked up my shooting with the self imposed lead ban.

If we don’t stand up for fellow countrymen then it really is a death by a thousand cuts.

 

[Smellydog]

Hunting with dogs is like a drug to some people. I love it, but I have met dozens of lads who are on another level and leave me for dust.
A chap I met a couple of years ago, Mick Creavy, didn't get his first job until he was 26. He had a terrier given to him as a 10-year-old lad, and that was his fate. However, he ended up keeping running dogs. He was into match coursing, they would leave at first light and spend all day coursing wherever they could get away with it, until either the old bill turned up or the farmers ran them off. An interesting character to chat to.

I was out most nights in the winter lamping with my dogs. I'd get an hour's kip after tea, and then be off until the lead-acid batteries ran out of juice.
I remember it blowing up a hoolie one evening and made sure the batteries were ready to go. It was absolutely carnage out that night. The rabbits were flooded out of their burrows and sitting on the meadows looking for a dry patch. I lamped until the batteries died, one of them went up in a puff of fumes, the water had short-circuited it. I ended up dropping the rabbits off in clumps to pick up the next day with the van.
Anyhow, I woke up the next day, put the TV on and the news was all about the great storm the night before.. 1987. I'll always remember that one!

I knew a chap like Mike.

I remember the great storm as well. Trying to aim an air rifle in that wind was impossible...

 

[Bo Diddley]

I knew a chap like Mike.

I remember the great storm as well. Trying to aim an air rifle in that wind was impossible...

I bet. I never realised how bad it had been until the next day. Young & Dumb that summed me up

 

[Smellydog]

I bet. I never realised how bad it had been until the next day. Young & Dumb that summed me up

Old and dumb here...

 

[Bo Diddley]

Old and dumb here...

#metoo now

 

[Ratel]

I used to enjoy the "Kinmount cup" coursing in Dumfries and the meetings at Blenheim. I never managed to make the Waterloo.
Robin Page was one of the most genuine people I have met and so even handed with his views on country sports and rural life. I've just lent a couple of his books to my son in law who is fascinated by his writing.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Some were like rocket ships - I helped train Bob Ennalls’s dogs and we had one like that.
Some of the worst for catching the hares were the saluki’s, as they don’t tire as quickly and the hares would run out of puff

Indeed, some of the Saluki Greyhounds were 'too good' if that makes sense. They had agility and bags of stamina and even really fit hares, that evaded 100 turns, would eventually be pulled down in a slow motion slog after a 5 minute course. I didn't enjoy that. I liked short sharp courses and if the hare tested the dogs then slipped away through a hedge - so much the better