Air rifles shots up in the air? FSB's team wild

[Fisheruk]

Can't be bothered to watch the program to see what the fuss is about so I'll pass some uninformed comment anyway!!

Does anyone know how the weight of an airgun pellet compares to an acorn? These seem to fall from trees quite regularly and i'm not aware of any fatalities, having said that, maybe we should petition for all oak trees to be felled as a precaution. It goes without saying that anyone making a TV program that shows acorns falling from trees should be tarred and feathered as this plainly encourages the reckless trees to do it all the more.

Don't even get me started on Horse Chestnuts...these must be five times the weight of an acorn and spikey too. Its these mast bearing trees that give all trees a bad name.

JC

+1 hit the spot

 

[macberran]

+1 hit the spot

oh dear thats a beaut JC275, a corker ,right on the nose of ...........todays HSE.

'Don't even get me started on horse chestnuts' pure dead brilliant, lovely.

 

[cowsmart]

an airgun pellet falling at terminal velocity will do you no more harm than hailstone...if that same airgun pelet retains a balistic arc then all changes...if all you fac holders think its ok to shoot at an upwards angle with no backstop then you don't deserve a fac....

 

[kennyc]

an airgun pellet falling at terminal velocity will do you no more harm than hailstone...if that same airgun pelet retains a balistic arc then all changes...if all you fac holders think its ok to shoot at an upwards angle with no backstop then you don't deserve a fac....

I don't think anyone is saying that, we are just shoving around a few different ideas on what constitutes a backstop, in fact I think we are all concerned about safety as evidenced in the to and fro of lively debate.

 

[cowsmart]

I don't think anyone is saying that, we are just shoving around a few different ideas on what constitutes a backstop, in fact I think we are all concerned about safety as evidenced in the to and fro of lively debate.

a safe backstop is a safe backstop period.....

 

[kennyc]

oh come on kenny, we settled that ages ago when the statement was made we weren't there so let it lie and moved on to the wider issues for consideration. A falling pellet has limited velocity as it tumbles back to the ground but when a pellet is in the arc of a predictable low angle trajectory it's carrying real venom and hits point first with its most effecient bc. The person firing is in control of safety and my LAST POINT says:

Should a responsible airgun hunter ensure that the shots they fire are safe? yes

As the hunter if you thought it was coming down near you you wouldn't look up to catch it after your shot for goodness sake because that wouldn't be safe.

Paul, as the hunter if I thought the shot was going to fall near me I would ensure that I was elsewhere I don't disagree with your intentions, I just don't fully agree with all of your scenarios as they do not accept the possibility of a safe low shot into a clear space, a scenario which most people who have ever shot an air rifle would recognise as safe under many conditions. obviously there are occasions when it would be unsafe and at that point I would agree entirely with your statement in bold. Should a responsible airgun hunter ensure that the shots they fire are safe? yes

 

[kennyc]

a safe backstop is a safe backstop period.....

define safe backstop, and bear in mind that in vast swathes of the country there are no helpful mountains

 

[cowsmart]

define safe backstop, and bear in mind that in vast swathes of the country there are no helpful mountains

are you for real? a safe backstop is a safe backstop .....don't feckin quote me if you don't know that!

 

[Mr Lewis]

+1 hit the spot

JC what about pine cones they are the size and shape and even bear a resemblance to a frag grenade!

I think any woodland owner who cultivates these dangerous types of tree should not ever be granted an FAC

 

[kennyc]

are you for real? a safe backstop is a safe backstop .....don't feckin quote me if you don't know that!

so you can't define a safe backstop then? let me help, are you thinking about a nice hefty mountain, or a gently rising hill, a Devon bank or even a substantial amount of countryside devoid of life? you see all of these can be safe backstops under the correct conditions.

 

[cowsmart]

so you can't define a safe backstop then? let me help, are you thinking about a nice hefty mountain, or a gently rising hill, a Devon bank or even a substantial amount of countryside devoid of life? you see all of these can be safe backstops under the correct conditions.

Kenny, come on mate..you know what a 'safe' backstop is when you pull the trigger..shooting any weapon upwards at a shallow angle does not have a 'safe' backstop.

 

[Hornet]

Get real thousands of corvids have been shot like this and will continue to be shot this way even using .22 rf shorts.

What next complaints about people shooting geese in the air without a backstop using 10g magnums a BB's !

indeed lets get real,an air rifle pellet landing on the ground is as harmless as rain drops(ish).

 

[mudman]

Just wear a hat, you'll be okay

 

[David TS]

Just wear a hat, you'll be okay

A tin foil one

 

[kennyc]

Kenny, come on mate..you know what a 'safe' backstop is when you pull the trigger..shooting any weapon upwards at a shallow angle requires you to consider what is going to act as your 'safe' backstop.

how about that ? can we agree on that statement?

 

[Paul at Fechan]

bad guys as backstops, interesting

 

[trouble]

No it won't a pellet of that weight will not kill you on its way down .

I think youll find a .22 short is a bullet not a pellet and sometime ago a school boy was killed by just such an incedent

 

[buckup]

Is this thread still rattling away? Let me throw this in the mix.


G.Austin. Says:
May 10, 2010 at 8:27 am
It depends on a number of factors, mass, shape of projectile, velocity, angle, wind etc. Also, when do you consider the pellet “done”. When it lands? or when it hasn’t enough energy to penetrate skin?
I did some calculations to work out when a pellet would no longer be dangerous to an (a) Adult, and then, (b) a Child. I have assumed an eye shot is practically impossible given a stray shot.
Using the book “Firearms, the Law, and Forensic Ballistics” (ISBN:0748404325), Chapter 7, “Terminal/Wound Ballistics and Distance of Firing” you get data on a handful of common pellets and their threshold velocities for breaking the skin. Here are two:
(a) Adult 18-90 years: Spire point, 8.6gn, 358fps +-39fps ~ 2.45ft/lbs +-0.5
(b) Child 1-38 months: Spire point, 8.6gn, 272fps +-36fps ~ 1.41ft/lbs +-0.5
Now you have the dangerous kinetic energy threshold for a spire point pellet you can push those numbers through a ballistics calculator. A free program that does this for you, including wind and elevation, is the GNU Ballistics calculator (GEBC): http://sourceforge.net/projects/balcomp/
For example: A 177 Kodiak/Barracuda 10.6gn Pellet fired at 900 ft/s is dangerous out to the following distances. You need to angle the shot to accommodate the flight time before hitting your target. I calculated these for a 0 degree incline for a worst case number. An angled shot will have a shorter “ground distance” depending on the incline.
(a) Adult 18-90 years: 210 yards +/- 20 yards. Flight 1.31s
(b) Child 1-38 months: 280 yards +/- 50 yards. Flight 2.23s
Assumes a steady 10mph crosswind (90 degrees) you have wind drift of 9 feet at 210 yards and 19 feet at 280 yards.

There now it all becomes clear! There are anoraks everywhere, not just on S.D.

 

[matt_hooks]

Buck, I already did those calculations if you scroll back! Got a fairly similar answer too, though I assumed a little more energy for a pellet to be "dangerous"

 

[buckup]

Buck, I already did those calculations if you scroll back! Got a fairly similar answer too, though I assumed a little more energy for a pellet to be "dangerous"

Congratulations matt, and go straight to the head of my anorak list.. Only teasing honestly. I can't quite believe this thread has gone on so long, with such a load of twaddle being spewed forth.