is it an offence to be in posetion of a rifle bolt

[Tamus]

I would suggest from what they said as soon as it is bored and obviously rifled. Otherwise it is a smooth bore barrel and subject to other legislation... Lets not go there!!!

He certainly felt that the actual chambering of a barrel would not be necessary to class it as a component part, merely adapted to allow a projectile to pass up the rifled bore would render it as being a component part and subject to authority to possess on an FAC.

This is one FLO's interpretation of the legislation as it was mine. Others may disagree to an extent with regards to the barrel. I think the componenet part issue is pretty clear though.

Don't mean to seem rude, but... "Free" advice is usually worth what you pay for it, IMHO.

As for "British Standard Pipe" regulations... haven't a clue...

However, I find it interesting that a "rifled" pipe would be considered a firearms component what about square threaded pipe?

 

[jamross65]

Don't mean to seem rude, but... "Free" advice is usually worth what you pay for it, IMHO.

As for "British Standard Pipe" regulations... haven't a clue...

However, I find it interesting that a "rifled" pipe would be considered a firearms component what about square threaded pipe?

Tamus

As I said, the barrel may be subject to further consideration. Would it have to be threaded for fitting as well? A barrel blank is clearly not adapted or usable as a rifle barrel. Bore and rifle it and it is clearly now intended for future use as such, regardless of how much more work is required to actually put it to use. Hence in my opinion it would now be a component part.

As for free advice, well as many have suggested the Firarms Licensing dept should be up to speed on this matter and it was clearly not the first time they had been asked the question. It corresponds with other information available online, namely HMRC's website and I Have to say my own interpretation as well, based on 28 years of working with legislation, law and it's interpretation. That said, I have been wrong before...

As a side issue though, can you show me a diagram of the female end of the join a square threaded pipe will be capable of screwing into?

 

[Tamus]

Tamus

As I said, the barrel may be subject to further consideration. Would it have to be threaded for fitting as well? A barrel blank is clearly not adapted or usable as a rifle barrel. Bore and rifle it and it is clearly now intended for future use as such, regardless of how much more work is required to actually put it to use. Hence in my opinion it would now be a component part.

As for free advice, well as many have suggested the Firarms Licensing dept should be up to speed on this matter and it was clearly not the first time they had been asked the question. It corresponds with other information available online, namely HMRC's website and I Have to say my own interpretation as well, based on 28 years of working with legislation, law and it's interpretation. That said, I have been wrong before...

As a side issue though, can you show me a diagram of the female end of the join a square threaded pipe will be capable of screwing into?

Are you asking/talking about rod inserts and collar systems?

I'm sure there's probably specialist sites for stuff like that.

 

[Tamus]

Tamus

As I said, the barrel may be subject to further consideration. Would it have to be threaded for fitting as well? A barrel blank is clearly not adapted or usable as a rifle barrel. Bore and rifle it and it is clearly now intended for future use as such, regardless of how much more work is required to actually put it to use. Hence in my opinion it would now be a component part.

As for free advice, well as many have suggested the Firarms Licensing dept should be up to speed on this matter and it was clearly not the first time they had been asked the question. It corresponds with other information available online, namely HMRC's website and I Have to say my own interpretation as well, based on 28 years of working with legislation, law and it's interpretation. That said, I have been wrong before...

As a side issue though, can you show me a diagram of the female end of the join a square threaded pipe will be capable of screwing into?

Just thinking back to a purchase a few years ago... of a mains to 415v transformer, that I bought to use as part of our home made single to three phase lecky converter. I bought it off a well known UK maker of gun barrels and when we were loading it we used some manky old bits of cast off "grooved" pipe, that were just lying about the nearby workshop, as lifing bars. Neither was "chambered" but one looked to be about a .284" (ish) and the other one was a bit heftier, maybe 8mm (i.e. .323") or .338"

I kind of presume your advisor and you might have been a bit "surprised" by our choice of tools .

 

[jamross65]

Are you asking/talking about rod inserts and collar systems?

I'm sure there's probably specialist sites for stuff like that.

Rod inserts and collar systems!!!!

I know the kind of site you are referring to, you should be ashamed of yourself...

 

[jamross65]

Just thinking back to a purchase a few years ago... of a mains to 415v transformer, that I bought to use as part of our home made single to three phase lecky converter. I bought it off a well known UK maker of gun barrels and when we were loading it we used some manky old bits of cast off "grooved" pipe, that were just lying about the nearby workshop, as lifing bars. Neither was "chambered" but one looked to be about a .284" (ish) and the other one was a bit heftier, maybe 8mm (i.e. .323") or .338"

I kind of presume your advisor and you might have been a bit "surprised" by our choice of tools .

Well, if needs be improvise...

I suppose though that it could have been argued they are component parts. But as you were handling them in his premises and he was in there then you then suspect no issue. Bit like going into an RFD and asking 'can I see that one please...'

 

[Virbius]

How about constituent components of reloaded ammunition?
When does a case, primer, powder and head become ammunition that needs to be accounted for on your FAC alloted ammunition quantity?

I don't reload, so it's not really a rhetorical question, it would be interesting to know.

 

[jamross65]

How about constituent components of reloaded ammunition?
When does a case, primer, powder and head become ammunition that needs to be accounted for on your FAC alloted ammunition quantity?

I don't reload, so it's not really a rhetorical question, it would be interesting to know.

All parts on their own, then expanding bullets only. All the other components can be purchased over the counter without an FAC.

 

[Tamus]

How about constituent components of reloaded ammunition?
When does a case, primer, powder and head become ammunition that needs to be accounted for on your FAC alloted ammunition quantity?

I don't reload, so it's not really a rhetorical question, it would be interesting to know.

Not until fully assembled, do components become a firearms act matter, with the exception in more recent years of bullets "designed" to expand (which are supposed to be counted as prohibited items, like loaded rounds)

I well remember buying my first Lee Anniversary reloading kit, and cases, powder, pills, primers and even a free 100 box of 150grain Sierra game-kings, all delivered in the post... and it did cross my mind that it was all a bit easy... but, why not? As far as I know it never created any problem that made "law" necessary.

 

[Virbius]

Excellent - thanks Jamross65 and Tamus

 

[Orion]

When does a case, primer, powder and head become ammunition that needs to be accounted for on your FAC alloted ammunition quantity?

One point. Expanding bullets/projectiles count towards your total holding of expanding ammo but they need not be entered on the FAC, so are not 'accounted for' in that manner.

The HO Guidance is quite specific about this - the RFD records the sale in his register, and must have sight of your FAC to ensure you have a condition allowing possession of expanding. But there is no requirement for the RFD to make an entry on the FAC.

See 13.7 in the Guidance.

 

[Virbius]

So once you have completed a quantity of reloaded ammunition, you don't have to enter it yourself on your FAC?
And the total amount of ammunition, including expanding, that you have in you possession must naturally not exceed your total holding - which includes factory bought and reloaded.

 

[Tamus]

Correct

But don't forget expanding bullets "count" as loaded rounds (regardless of whether loaded or not) for the purposes of compliance with allowance totals.

 

[Orion]

Yes correct. Purchased factory rounds (FMJ or expanding) plus your own complete reloaded rounds, (again FMJ or expanding), plus individual expanding bullets/projectiles on their own, must not exceed your total 'allowed to possess' quantity.

Some small number of FAC holders appear to make a point of entering their own reloaded ammo onto their own certs for some reason - maybe to try and 'prove' they are using? But there is no requirement for it and it really serves no purpose other than possibly satisfying an over-zealous FEO who knows no better.

 

[Virbius]

Tamus/Orion: Great thanks - got it. Just need to start reloading now............

 

[Tamus]

Yes correct. Purchased factory rounds (FMJ or expanding) plus your own complete reloaded rounds, plus individual expanding bullets/projectiles on their own, must not exceed your total 'allowed to possess' quantity.

Some small number of FAC holders appear to make a point of entering their own reloaded ammo onto their own certs for some reason - maybe to try and 'prove' they are using? But there is no requirement for it and it really serves no purpose other than possibly satisfying an over-zealous FEO who knows no better.

And... an FEO "satisfied" with such an arbitrary device, as someone's hand written record, is really not being very sensible... are they?

 

[Orion]

Absolutely not - as we both well know. And the same thing could also be said about viewing unverified 'cull records' or 'shooting logs' as evidence in order to 'prove' experience couldn't it? It's all box ticking and ar*e covering on their part if they aren't capable of assessing the individual properly anyway.

 

[bewsher500]

i wonder how much actual recording is done for FAC holder to FAC holder bullet exchange?
half the entries in my old FAC were almost illegible!

do they cross reference the exchange of 13 .224 bullets left over from a box that I stick on a mates FAC?

 

[Orion]

do they cross reference the exchange of 13 .224 bullets left over from a box that I stick on a mates FAC?

Only if they were to suspect an offence had been committed, any offence that is, and not necessarily a firearms related one. Then the microscope might come out and seemingly trivial matters can start to become very important for some reason.