Let's increase firearms fees.

[Hereford bull]

IMHO there should be two levels of licensing, one lower level for essential users (farmers, gamekeepers etc) and one higher for sports users, but this has to be backed up by proven higher levels of customer service. Is providing FACs really the job of a police force (sorry service (vomit)) or should they be using the funds provided "through my council tax and general taxation" to catch / deter criminals?

 

[EssBee]

It would seem more logical if the licensing and renewals process was centralised in a similar manner to DVLA, including online renewals. With some sensible creative thinking it would be possible.
But then are we, the poor saps being "shat" on from a great height, expecting the system to be sensible after all there are self interests/jobs to consider!!
I recall someone BASC actually doing a cost comparison of police authorities actual costs of process grants and renewals.

 

[8x57]

An interesting article in the South Wales Argus today, I am not sure if it can be related to this debate but here goes anyway.

GWENT'S top police officer took a £6,500 bonus for her performance while her second in command declined his. No other chief constable in Wales took a bonus. Chief Constable Carmel Napier was awarded a £6,653 bonus - fiver per cent of her £133,068 salary for hitting performance targets in 2011/12. Deputy Chief Constable Jeff Farrar, who was also entitled to a five per cent bonus - £5,444 on top of his £108,882 salary, refused his.
The bonuses are paid by pre-determined targets and objectives set for Ms Napier and Mr Farrar. The Argus asked Gwent Police what these targets were, but were told they are part of the pair's Professional Development Records, which are personal documents.

Rumour has it that Gwent are currently running three to four months behind with renewals of firearms certificates.

 

[MONGOOSE]

An interesting article in the South Wales Argus today, I am not sure if it can be related to this debate but here goes anyway.

GWENT'S top police officer took a £6,500 bonus for her performance while her second in command declined his. No other chief constable in Wales took a bonus. Chief Constable Carmel Napier was awarded a £6,653 bonus - fiver per cent of her £133,068 salary for hitting performance targets in 2011/12. Deputy Chief Constable Jeff Farrar, who was also entitled to a five per cent bonus - £5,444 on top of his £108,882 salary, refused his.
The bonuses are paid by pre-determined targets and objectives set for Ms Napier and Mr Farrar. The Argus asked Gwent Police what these targets were, but were told they are part of the pair's Professional Development Records, which are personal documents.

Rumour has it that Gwent are currently running three to four months behind with renewals of firearms certificates.

You only have to look at the picture I posted on post #32 one page back to see how far behind they are

 

[8x57]

Sorry Mongoose I can't Gwent mentioned in post number 32 but if memory serves me right they failed to respond to the request for information for the Shooting Times article but I may be wrong on that.

 

[MONGOOSE]

Sorry Mongoose I can't Gwent mentioned in post number 32 but if memory serves me right they failed to respond to the request for information for the Shooting Times article but I may be wrong on that.

Im surprised that some of them did looking at the figures in that article , shocking really I'm glad I don't live in some of the areas mentioned must be months and months of delays....

 

[saddler]

They dont need more money, they need better organisation!! They rewrite the certificate rather than editing it, mistakes happen as a result

That said L&B are awesome (in case they are watching!) 2 week variation door to door.

Same force as you - 1 for 1 sent in back in early March; no sign of it as yet and no updates when I phone! HOW did you manage 6 weeks??
Quickest I've ever had was 2 months...
The OLD pre-photograph FAC's to me were BETTER in one respect - they had a section on them to allow the FLO admin staff to AMEND the existing FAC - NOT just do what they do now & re-print the whole thing THEN wait for those higher up the chain to check it & sign it

Driving Licence cards last 10 years - why not FAC's ?
YES - things can change in 10 years - as they can for drivers and their health & ability to legally operate a motor vehicle
WE are made to use the FAC system in the UK - it's not a matter of choice (unless you are wealthy enough to choose to emigrate) so WHY be aditionally penalised by high priced FACs for a below average service?
Someone else mentioned Road Fund Tax...I remember when that tax was SUPPOSED to be SOLELY used by the honorable UK Gov't to keep the roads up to snuff - anyone care to get out the calculator & work out how many millions of road fund tax money is spent on the roads? ...and where is the rest of the money going?

The Inspecorate of Constabulary reported many years back that the licencing of FAC/SGC's would be best taken off the Police forces & done by an independant body...not happened yet. I wonder why not??

 

[Bandit Country]

An interesting article in the South Wales Argus today, I am not sure if it can be related to this debate but here goes anyway.

GWENT'S top police officer took a £6,500 bonus for her performance while her second in command declined his. No other chief constable in Wales took a bonus. Chief Constable Carmel Napier was awarded a £6,653 bonus - fiver per cent of her £133,068 salary for hitting performance targets in 2011/12. Deputy Chief Constable Jeff Farrar, who was also entitled to a five per cent bonus - £5,444 on top of his £108,882 salary, refused his.
The bonuses are paid by pre-determined targets and objectives set for Ms Napier and Mr Farrar. The Argus asked Gwent Police what these targets were, but were told they are part of the pair's Professional Development Records, which are personal documents.

Rumour has it that Gwent are currently running three to four months behind with renewals of firearms certificates.

Mike,

Even ignoring the unprincipled practice of paying a bonus to public servants FOR DOING THEIR FLAMING JOB, £6.5k would get an administrator for couple of days a week, thereby speeding up the process. Clearly your CC thinks her holiday in somewhere sunny is more important than providing you with a decent service. The words, pig, snout and trough come to mind?

 

[libensvolenspotens]

I see no reason, other than pander to politicians/media, to need to renew an FAC or SGC.
If I have met all the criteria to hold and use firearms, proven by the issuance of my cert then that should be sufficient.
In this day & age changes to my status which might affect my "Suitability" to own firearms would register on the Police National Computer and the boys in blue would hasten their way to my door to relieve me of of their burden!
By all means make random checks of my security. Contact my GP at any time (I have already given permission when I applied)
Ask me to provide a picture on a regular basis in order to update my records - not a problem.
My driving licence is valid until I am70.
Issued in my teens I can confirm that circumstances have changed and will change further before I am 70. However I met the criteria for the licence to be issued and as long as I do nothing that contravenes the requirements it remains valid.
Why does an FAC or SGC have to be any different?

 

[bobt]

but dont private CEOs get a bonus?

 

[saddler]

I see no reason, other than pander to politicians/media, to need to renew an FAC or SGC.
If I have met all the criteria to hold and use firearms, proven by the issuance of my cert then that should be sufficient.
In this day & age changes to my status which might affect my "Suitability" to own firearms would register on the Police National Computer and the boys in blue would hasten their way to my door to relieve me of of their burden!
By all means make random checks of my security. Contact my GP at any time (I have already given permission when I applied)
Ask me to provide a picture on a regular basis in order to update my records - not a problem.
My driving licence is valid until I am70.
Issued in my teens I can confirm that circumstances have changed and will change further before I am 70. However I met the criteria for the licence to be issued and as long as I do nothing that contravenes the requirements it remains valid.
Why does an FAC or SGC have to be any different?

A lifetime remit to hold an FAC?!?!?!
I mean - seriously in this day & age, what other areas of life provide a lifetime-valid automatic acceptance of competence?... apart from Bankers, Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers, Teachers, Clergy, etc. etc. NONE of whom I'm sure would ever give cause for concern regarding their suitability for the role!

 

[8x57]

Chris I had similar unchristian thoughts myself when I read that newspaper article last night. Perhaps the good woman really needs the bonus after all she could possibly be the last Chief Constable of Gwent before the force is absorbed into either South Wales or a single force covering the whole of Wales at some time in the next few years.
It's interesting that Gwent took 9 days recently to simply acknowlege receipt of an email from me notifying them of the transfer of a firearm. They only confirmed delivery of the second email and never answered questions posed in the emails. Yet they claim to be one of the most effective forces in England & Wales with the largest reduction in crime. I seem to recall similar claims when Gwent Fire Service were trying to avoid amalgamation with other brigades on reorganisation. They claimed that they met attendance times on 100% of occasions. I know for a fact that that wasn't true because personally I was aware of occasions when this didn't happen, but the figures were being massaged. Just a wild thought but I wonder if something similar has happened with Gwent Police.

 

[Tamus]

being massaged. Just a wild thought but I wonder if something similar has happened with Gwent Police.

 

[Lateral]

It would be interesting to see a full list from each force, showing just how many transactions (FAC's, variations, etc') each of them is doing per year, verses the number of applications, because like most, I suspect the delays are not due to a lack of money, but a lack of organisation, and the will to do a good job.

I come under Beds & Herts, who cover a fairly large populous, and their service is superb. If I send in for a variation, and don't get my new FAC back within 2 days, I'm surprised. Yes, they are that good. I could have just been lucky, but it's consistant.

A friend in Derbyshire took over two months for a simple variation.

I'm sorry, but just throwing money at them won't solve the issues, any more than throwing billions at the NHS has had much impact. However, some of the suggestions to consolidate the system, and remove/change some of the illogical rules, would do a lot more to help.

I can't see the point of "open/closed" FAC's. If we're considered safe to hold the firearm, just give open. This will free up an enormous amount of time, in admin', and land inspectios.

Direct "one for one" variations for the same caliber. Why on earth does this require all the red tape ? I'd go further, issue FAC's up to a given caliber, and you can buy what you want, up to that caliber, just having the same notification requirements, and you only need to apply for a variation if you want a caliber above what's been agreed. Same for moderators.

 

[Pine Marten]

It would be interesting to see a full list from each force, showing just how many transactions (FAC's, variations, etc') each of them is doing per year, verses the number of applications, because like most, I suspect the delays are not due to a lack of money, but a lack of organisation, and the will to do a good job.

There was a feature in Shooting Times a few weeks ago based on precisely that information obtained by the writer, although not all Police forces had responded, but mostly it just showed massive inconsistency.

 

[Lateral]

Yes, but it needs to be complete, where each force is made to supply the figures, and can't just cop out (excuse the pun !)

To suggest throwing money at the system, when we don't know if it's a lack of money, or a lack of competence, won't help.

I don't know if Beds & Herts are better funded, with more staff, more competent, or both, but I'm pretty sure that throwing more money at them is unlikely to improve what is already a fantastic service.

 

[j0e_bl0ggs]

Yes, but it needs to be complete, where each force is made to supply the figures, and can't just cop out (excuse the pun !)

To suggest throwing money at the system, when we don't know if it's a lack of money, or a lack of competence, won't help.

I don't know if Beds & Herts are better funded, with more staff, more competent, or both, but I'm pretty sure that throwing more money at them is unlikely to improve what is already a fantastic service.

Fantastic....????

3 months for renewal
8 months for grant

 

[Lateral]

Fantastic....????

3 months for renewal
8 months for grant

"Herts" have been FANTASTIC, before, and since they joined with Beds a few months ago.

I can only assume you were under Beds, before they were amalgamated ? If not you must have been very unlucky, because that is absolutely not my experience !

 

[j0e_bl0ggs]

"Herts" have been FANTASTIC, before, and since they joined with Beds a few months ago.

I can only assume you were under Beds, before they were amalgamated ? If not you must have been very unlucky, because that is absolutely not my experience !

Beds used to turn license around in a reasonable time, now with the amalgamation with Herts and soon Cambs, man alive!!!

 

[CWMMAN3738]

They dont call them BENT GWENT for nothing even their own will tell you its the smallest but most corupt force in the country and i know this through personal experience. i'm not confrontational but will almost allways challange something if it's not right and think before they try to charge us more they should put their own house in order. if its got to change then change it to something that works like the DVLA or MOT system. Take it away from individual forces and make it central then it will at least be consistent and hopefully just, give us a credit card stile licence chipped with our details and make the 1-1 and calibre systems simpler, that way it becomes more efficent all round and we get a better service for which we wouldn't mind paying

Chris I had similar unchristian thoughts myself when I read that newspaper article last night. Perhaps the good woman really needs the bonus after all she could possibly be the last Chief Constable of Gwent before the force is absorbed into either South Wales or a single force covering the whole of Wales at some time in the next few years.
It's interesting that Gwent took 9 days recently to simply acknowlege receipt of an email from me notifying them of the transfer of a firearm. They only confirmed delivery of the second email and never answered questions posed in the emails. Yet they claim to be one of the most effective forces in England & Wales with the largest reduction in crime. I seem to recall similar claims when Gwent Fire Service were trying to avoid amalgamation with other brigades on reorganisation. They claimed that they met attendance times on 100% of occasions. I know for a fact that that wasn't true because personally I was aware of occasions when this didn't happen, but the figures were being massaged. Just a wild thought but I wonder if something similar has happened with Gwent Police.