Bavarian mountain hound

[stone]

Hi Jimmy

When I first ruptured my ACL in my knee they (hospital staff, surgeon etc) immobilised the joint in a plaster cast for 6 weeks.

I get the ligament replaced with a bit of tendon, then some time later rupture the repair playing sport again. The difference a few years makes in treatment! No immobilising, straight into a brace and off to the physio!

Point is that at the time of your dog training things were in their infancy. If I had not met Rudi I would be doing what was seen in a recent training video (shown it for a laugh) and be splattering blood up and down the track as well...

Interesting way of putting things, but not the way it was described to me by both Rudi and the Baron
jimmy does not hav a scent hound
so in their eyes it did not qualify for the training that a scent hound should hav
a scent hound = no blood
a non-scent hound = blood
that is how it was and still is put to me
and I can appreciate the reasons behind it , even thou I dispute the facts
a non scent hound that is bred from the right lines with the right training will be able to out track most scent hounds it is put against
and that is fact

 

[jamross65]

Interesting way of putting things, but not the way it was described to me by both Rudi and the Baron
jimmy does not hav a scent hound
so in their eyes it did not qualify for the training that a scent hound should hav
a scent hound = no blood
a non-scent hound = blood
that is how it was and still is put to me
and I can appreciate the reasons behind it , even thou I dispute the facts
a non scent hound that is bred from the right lines with the right training will be able to out track most scent hounds it is put against
and that is fact

Hi Stone

Apologies, I was forgetting that Jimmy does not have scenthound as this is on the BMH thread.

However, would a non scenthound not still be capable of following a track laid by cleaves only during training in preparation for the event that a wounded deer is not bleeding on the track?

 

[stone]

On paper yes
in reality as the track gets older NO
unless it has been trained to do so
and all training related to non scent hounds points to blood which is the problem and the point we are at
blood or no blood....

 

[jimmy milnes]

Sorry all typing on my phone now and it's not good. Yes tilly is a gsp but nobody on that day said that one rule for one and one for another like stone says if we are all in it for the benefit of tracking wounded deer the breed doesn't matter train them the same and I think you know they can all do it
Kind regards
Jimmy

 

[cookingfat]

hi all,
i have to agree with the above posts about people not knowing how to go on when they get a dog that they wish to train for tracking, but let me give my story if i may about what happend not long after i got tilly,
i wanted to train her for tracking so i booked a place on a "basic day" course run by the NGO at calton moor range three people lectured/spoke that day on what to do regards training your dog to track wounded deer and all three are/were members on here, and on that day we were all told to use blood on the trail, and on the practical element in the afternoon blood was laid along with a hoof dragged on the floor for the dogs to follow.
later on "twelve or so months" there on here saying never start a dog off on blood use cleaves only until it can follow cold scent trails of cleaves only.
so as the above posts say give us the correct information so we can do it right from the off please, im more than willing to listen to anyone who can teach me something but when they contradict themselfs a short while later it doesnt do much for my confidence in them.
oh and yes ive asked one of them since why they told me wrong on that day and the answer i was given was "well you know how it is when your asked to do something by a big organization and your a in a strange country you dont want to rock the boat"
this is in no way ment to cause an argument with anyone its just a statement on a true fact that happened

kind regards
jimmy

Hi JImmy,

I to was there on the sunday with my two labs, and from what i was told the saturday did not go well, with two of the partys that where taking the day could not agree on how training should be done and i know that many where confused on how the best way forward with there training should be done.
I have seen many ways of starting your training for a pup/young dog and all work, some achiving better results than others depending on the dog/hound and the handler, all these different ways of training end up with the same result and aim which is for your dog/hound to track a cold scent.
you dont need a necessary need a specialst breed of dog, infact the best and champion breed in tracking tests in some eurpean countrys are not specialist breeds, you just need to put in some quality training and days like that one on calton moor do not help the beginer to cold scent training.


Regards Tony

 

[cookingfat]

Hi JImmy,

I to was there on the sunday with my two labs, and from what i was told the saturday did not go well, with two of the partys that where taking the day could not agree on how training should be done and i know that many where confused on how the best way forward with there training should be done.
I have seen many ways of starting your training for a pup/young dog and all work, some achiving better results than others depending on the dog/hound and the handler, all these different ways of training end up with the same result and aim which is for your dog/hound to track a cold scent.
you dont need a necessary need a specialst breed of dog, infact the best and champion breed in tracking tests in some eurpean countrys are not specialist breeds, you just need to put in some quality training and days like that one on calton moor do not help the beginer to cold scent training.


Regards Tony

by the way this is not me having a go at all you boys with specialist breeds, i have been a judge on three days where there have been bmh's an hs's, some have been bloody good and some bloody useless.
ALL DOWN TO TRAINING.

 

[stone]

ALL DOWN TO TRAINING.

+1

 

[Wolverine]

AND BREEDING AND WHAT LINE you get a dog from.
This is as important if not more so than training.....
Otherwise why get a Danish lab??
If its all down to training any dog could do this.No?
Den,Teckel's are no use for larger species,Scenthounds are better.
Teckels tend to get hurt,when mixing with bigger deer.They are fearless,they're main drawback.Are you also saying Den that a teckel can put a roe deer to bay?Roe very rarely stand to bay,sometimes but rare,larger dogs have an advantage as they have more stamina and strength to keep up with a chase on a wounded animal.Looking forward to seeing our mutual friends one tackle a wounded red someday(the work not the wounding,hopefully it never happens)He knows my number when the teckel is knackered.

 

[cookingfat]

AND BREEDING AND WHAT LINE you get a dog from.
This is as important if not more so than training.....
Otherwise why get a Danish lab??
If its all down to training any dog could do this.No?
Den,Teckel's are no use for larger species,Scenthounds are better.
Teckels tend to get hurt,when mixing with bigger deer.They are fearless,they're main drawback.

Danish labs, i have herd they are a nice colour..!!!

 

[Wolverine]

Danish labs, i have herd they are a nice colour..!!!

Good one Tony

 

[stone]

AND BREEDING AND WHAT LINE you get a dog from.
This is as important if not more so than training.....
Otherwise why get a Danish lab??
If its all down to training any dog could do this.No?
Den,Teckel's are no use for larger species,Scenthounds are better.
Teckels tend to get hurt,when mixing with bigger deer.They are fearless,they're main drawback.

OK
you as well as I know we need good breeding to start with
already stated this in answer to Jimmy
yes looking at Danish for a reason as you did the Hanoverian
But why should training be any different
we are aiming for the same thing
a well trained dog that can walk the walk
training has to play a major part of that
and this is the big picture
if you can't put practice into play what good is good breeding
anyway
you should be happy united won...lol

 

[cookingfat]

ok George you have work me out.

the pup that i will be getting is bred from parents that must have passed the Danish tracking test before they are two years old.
and i like the colour.

 

[Wolverine]

OK
you as well as I know we need good breeding to start with
already stated this in answer to Jimmy
yes looking at Danish for a reason as you did the Hanoverian
But why should training be any different
we are aiming for the same thing
a well trained dog that can walk the walk
training has to play a major part of that
and this is the big picture
if you can't put practice into play what good is good breeding
anyway
you should be happy united won...lol

Very lucky united won mannie...
It all depends what you're training for Richard.Some may train for different things.
Ahh but breeding shouldn't be part of it until a standard is reached.
Those dogs that have inherently bred traits are better than those that do not,ie chocolate Danish labs

 

[Wolverine]

ok George you have work me out.

the pup that i will be getting is bred from parents that must have passed the Danish tracking test before they are two years old.
and i like the colour.

Correct Tony,therefore inherently bred to track.....I love chocolate labs too
Nothing to do with training bud,raw material.Now whichever method you use it matters not as long as you're happy with that method and it works for you.Same with Scenthounds,some will take to a higher level than others,nothing wrong with that.Or the lesser level as long as its doing the job required.
A few questions Tony,Danish test,which one are the parents having to complete before breeding?The pre-test or the elite test?
The Danish system is a good one,however is it correct that if a handler who receives first grade passes on a puppy test(3hours old/400m long) for 2 different dogs can then enter future dogs right into another puppy test(for a scenthound20hour old/400mlong)without ever having to sit this test again?
Passing this test(again a first grade pass) then let's the handler and dog onto the official register and allow them onto the elite tests(20hours old/40hours old,over 1km long)without having to do the pre-test.
So therefore someone can jump a dog up the tests without being tested?!?
Also where in the Danish system is obedience tested?
Or is it just tracking work that's tested?That is leash work only,getting a dog from point A to point B.With no wounded animal at the end?
Also blood or no blood,is 100ml of blood a lot of blood to use on a track over 1000m(elite test)especially where there are wound couches to be indicated?(Where majority of that blood will be used,unless theres a fake chase)So does in fact the Danish system not use exactly the same training as the German one but at a lesser level?Note for any of the other tests is 250ml not the absolute maximum that can be used? Not saying any system is better just that levels are different.For example only leash work tested.
Now if blood is to be used for a start in training how does that dog indicate that minute amount at a wound couch for you?Especially when started on blood for training,ie the dog will realise what it is but will he indicate it when started on blood,are the Danish tests at the wound couch deducted points for not indicating?
Is Denmark an ISHV country?
Danish dogs are bred and worked to a standard a good standard but there are differences between the training of them as the standards trained to are different for these tests.Tests between Scenthounds and other breeds.
AT LEAST THEY HAVE A STANDARD!!!!Unlike us.

 

[widu]

Now that is a good post George. Interesting to see the answer's , and also what should be the accepted minimum standard for a recognised level of competence and or ability from dog / hound and handler here in the UK. I have my thought's on this but would like to hear other's thoughts on it out of interest.
Regard's Widu.

 

[Rudi]

Dear all ,
I became a not so friendly post from one off the SD users , about training , bilding up , giving advice , ect ...
Therefore i decided from now one not to post anything more on the SD , i tought i could be an helping hand .
Regards ,
Rudi

 

[jamross65]

Dear all ,
I became a not so friendly post from one off the SD users , about training , bilding up , giving advice , ect ...
Therefore i decided from now one not to post anything more on the SD , i tought i could be an helping hand .
Regards ,
Rudi

Hi Rudi

There are many interested on the site that could benefit from your knowledge. Do not be put off by the attitude of one..

 

[cookingfat]

Now that is a good post George. Interesting to see the answer's , and also what should be the accepted minimum standard for a recognised level of competence and or ability from dog / hound and handler here in the UK. I have my thought's on this but would like to hear other's thoughts on it out of interest.
Regard's Widu.

difficult one to answer off the top of my head and as working off the phone today, but i will answer your questions when i get back to my pc, as for a standerd in this country well six pointer did ask in another thread not long ago i think, i think you all know what i think but no body els was prepaired to put a standerd forward, i am working to try and get something sorted at the moment, but it is early days and getting everybody around the table is the aim and then getting all to agree a standerd and training is going to be a night mare.

tony

 

[cookingfat]

Dear all ,
I became a not so friendly post from one off the SD users , about training , bilding up , giving advice , ect ...
Therefore i decided from now one not to post anything more on the SD , i tought i could be an helping hand .
Regards ,
Rudi

hi Rudi
don't give up because of one thing said.
you have much knowledge and we all need people like you.

regards tony

 

[Wolverine]

Dear all ,
I became a not so friendly post from one off the SD users , about training , bilding up , giving advice , ect ...
Therefore i decided from now one not to post anything more on the SD , i tought i could be an helping hand .
Regards ,
Rudi

Ill talk with you anytime Rudi,I'd like to know from who?
The Pict in me will come out!!!!!