jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
jeezzz here we go again chaps lol tin hats at the ready !!!!!!! prob going to run into topside of a hundy posts of my dogs blacker than that dog haha
Bavarian mountain hound
- Thread starter Grant.N
- Start date
Wolverine
Well-Known Member
In full agreement with Jimmy on this,I ain't arguing.Not worth it.Bored of it.
Gazza,how do you know my labs aren't from a long line of trackers,you're wrong
Always have done homework on dogs before buying one,simple.Homework required before buying any breed of dog,thorough homework on that breeds positives and negatives for whatever that breed/dog will be doing work wise,health wise,temperament wise and pedigree wise.
How many dogs/handlers in UK could do what Widu has done......
Answer.....none,0,nada,not a one,simple and fact right there.
Gazza,how do you know my labs aren't from a long line of trackers,you're wrong
Always have done homework on dogs before buying one,simple.Homework required before buying any breed of dog,thorough homework on that breeds positives and negatives for whatever that breed/dog will be doing work wise,health wise,temperament wise and pedigree wise.
How many dogs/handlers in UK could do what Widu has done......
Answer.....none,0,nada,not a one,simple and fact right there.
6pointer
Well-Known Member
You bought your labs because they were red labs and sat and stayed with out much training. Your new dog will be different and will be a challenge of that i have no doubt but getting it 3/4 trained will help (If only i had help like that) With regards we the dog comes from matter not George what matters is if it is sound in body and in mind and from a working ped. Mine certainly is and she works well both on an off a lead will i take her and track for miles no . Now with regards these German dogs that are KC registered according to the kennel club list there are none 
May i add what the f eck has Widos continental challenge got to do with anything.I know loads from here that have been to Africa stalking Poland and other country's well done to them. Sadly i will not because i don't want to but there not hero,s just guys that want to do something different..
This island of ours now has many many BMH From all over europe and it is from that stock that the breed will grow and prosper.
MAY I ADD GOOD LOOKING ALSO
May i add what the f eck has Widos continental challenge got to do with anything.I know loads from here that have been to Africa stalking Poland and other country's well done to them. Sadly i will not because i don't want to but there not hero,s just guys that want to do something different..
This island of ours now has many many BMH From all over europe and it is from that stock that the breed will grow and prosper.
MAY I ADD GOOD LOOKING ALSO
JAYB
Super Moderator
OK here we go again, people come inhere to ask advice etc about dogs for deer,this post being a prime example. It is also another prime example of "unless it's German it' no good" being thrust down our throats. I thought we had got beyond this but no it is rearing it's head yet again, and if it does not stop then I will stop it, and Wolverine if you think this is aimed at you then you are correct, pack it in. You may not have noticed but people are trying to explain to you that they are happy with the way that they train and use their dogs, folk want to be able to post without you jumping down their throats because their dog is not German, and does not follow a day old track, so accept that and move on.
John
John
Wolverine
Well-Known Member
John,Davie and myself know one another,as you know,we are having banter that's all.
I have not said"unless its German its no good".What I am saying is the German dogs are better,all round.
Now if someone can prove different fair enough,they can't though because that is the fact.
If people want to use and train their dogs whichever way they want they can,no big deal to myself.
I am not jumping down people's throats because their dog is not German.
What annoys me most in this debate is I am putting across my opinion as asked for by the OP,now because a majority of people are upset at my posts should I not post?
There is a world of difference between German dogs and what there is available in this country.
I don't mean to cause offence and hope none is taken.A day old track is what these dogs have been selectively bred for a century to do.
This poses another question,if people aren't willing to put the work into their dogs to get them to do this,do they really need one?
They are the specialists and as such should be trained,bred and worked as such,any dog will find dead deer.So can these dogs once they've mastered their proper job,cold scent,then you really do see a difference in any dog,they are much much more well rounded John as a result.
I have gave numerous people help with their dogs on here,Polish,Slovakian,labs,HS,wires and the rest,some in this thread as well,I do know what I'm on about John.
I will not post from now on as I get the feeling I'm "boring"you again......
Up to the OP to decide what he wants to do.The facts are there.
JAYB
Super Moderator
I don't care who you know and who you do not know the tone of your posts are always the same German dogs and training methods are the best and the only ones to use. You have posted "What I am saying is the German dogs are better,all round. Now if someone can prove different fair enough,they can't though because that is the fact." Have you produced evidence that his is the case, can you prove this as you would like others to prove different?
If you wish to post your opinion do so, but please make sure it is just your opinion and not a set of guidelines that must be followed because everything else is rubbish, and your right I do find your attitude on these dog threads boring.
John
If you wish to post your opinion do so, but please make sure it is just your opinion and not a set of guidelines that must be followed because everything else is rubbish, and your right I do find your attitude on these dog threads boring.
John
Gazza
Well-Known Member
Wolverine, You have stood no less than 10 feet from my Polish bred dog whilst he completed a 24 hour old track which was laid according to 6p who laid the track with cleaves only. Fact or fiction? Don't think your posts are ever boring and I know that most is banter. The route that you and Jamross65 have gone down is your choice and chances are both of you will end up with excellent dogs but the real fact is that other BMH/HS and in fact other breeds of dog (labs, wires, teckels etc) can all be perfectly healthy and more than capable of a 24hr old track.
see it shoot it
Well-Known Member
if its of any use to you my mate has just put his bitch to a nice dog,there from german stock and i know for a fact his works well,hes up your neck of the woods so if interested in a pup PM I will pass on the details,dont listen to all the BS that goes on around here.
you can follow up with any dog with a good nose,
sikamalc
Administrator
The Germans got it wrong twice big time. I think it was WW1 and WW11 
As long as a BMH has the right pedigree and is from a working home (which most are) then you shouldnt have many problems. German, Slovak, Polish makes no difference, it will work as a rule, as its in the breed.
Too much hot air on this subject past and present.
As long as a BMH has the right pedigree and is from a working home (which most are) then you shouldnt have many problems. German, Slovak, Polish makes no difference, it will work as a rule, as its in the breed.
Too much hot air on this subject past and present.
terrier1
Well-Known Member
The Germans got it wrong twice big time. I think it was WW1 and WW11
As long as a BMH has the right pedigree and is from a working home (which most are) then you shouldnt have many problems. German, Slovak, Polish makes no difference, it will work as a rule, as its in the breed.
Too much hot air on this subject past and present.
I am of the opinion it all down to the person who is training the dog
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
very true, i think there are some health problems with the bmh's in this country, fitting, heart problems and if we are not careful there will be hip problems like the labs had and some still have, responsible bmh owners should get the hips and eyes done if they wont to breed from them.
it would be a pity if they ended up like some of those poor old labs did a few years back..!
tika.308
Well-Known Member
+1 cookingfat, i would never buy a pup now without hip/eye etc tests done on parents, it doesnt rule problems out but at least they have been checked the best they can be. Someone was churning labs out near me a few years ago, and i was told quite a few litters went blind at a young age no excuse not to get the checks done.
no excuse not to get the checks done.Hi All.
Well first may i say to Grant N, Thank You for asking for some advise to help with the confusion and at times Bull, that one see''s and reads on here. What I feel i must say to you is as you may have noticed this is a very touchy and sensitive topic of discussion.
I would like to add that there are some staunch supporters in both camps and so at times it may seem a bit heated or personal occasionally.Well each to his own, OPINION, that is. OK I must at this point say that my feet are in the German camp. Why? because I am that kind of person who looks long and hard before I buy.Maybe it's a Yorkshire thing nah!! it's a personal thing especially when you are talking about DOGS any dogs. Boy you only had to be in the beer tent after a local country show after the terrier or Lurcher show and watch the fights over whose dog should have won or who breeds the best this or that many on here will surely agree so far.
Why the German camp.
Well i spoke to many people here and the UK- BGS soc,this was a few years ago now and I actually joined their ranks to look, watch, and learn more about these scent hounds and realised or should i say came to the conclusion that this way was not for me. Again this is my personal opinion,and the reasons i decided to not go down this route was the lack of real working dogs being bred from, and sadly for the breed the many and serious health issues coming out from should I say to much improper breeding practices . Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I will add that only a few weeks ago i met with the committee of the UK-BGS society on an other matter. I asked them their views on the BGS in the UK , Quote !! it is a DISASTER!was the unanimous answer.They are on here some of them and will no doubt if asked tell you the same. They are trying to educate the owners of this breed many are not members of their soc' and some that are refuse to listen. They are having to re -home so many dogs (BGS) because of health and temprament issues because being a Brittish KC recognised society they must have a rescue within the society. This is becoming serious and they are doing their best but it now is a real problem within this breed.
Now many on here have perfectly healthy, happy, and good natured BGS , dogs and bitches. This is where it gets very complicated and when folks get upset, Please let me say at this point I am not having a go at any ones dog or any persons or owners of BGS in any way. I am simply trying to show to Grant N a few facts and give him an explanation as to what is the situation here in the UK not simple or easy to do.
Fact one Grant , is that all the BGS being bred in the UK at the moment come mostly from Poland or Lithuania or somewhere else. Sadly the first imports were not all from as was believed working and or reputable breeders. Many had underlying health issues and none were accepted as being good enough to be accepted by the official KBGS in Germany That is not only the dogs but the clubs and organisations that advertise , breed and sell them. I guess you realize that a flashy web site with lots of pic's of Boar and Red deer and pretty dogs to some looks the business but sadly can be far from the truth.
The above is and I apologise for it being so long winded the facts of the past history of the BGS in the UK, now would be a good time to say that some do work very well and their owners are very happy with their BGS .Yet there are some that are not so good and there owners or ex -owners might not be so happy as with some other breeds I feel..
As for the German bred dogs.
The KBGS ( Klub for the Bavarian Mountain ScentHound) was founded in 1912 as an officially recognised breed. Since then they have strictly controlled the ownership and breeding of their Hounds. Only Hounds that have passed strict working tests and their conformation is to a certain standard are they eligible to be bred from and then they are only allowed to produce 20 pups per dog. They like every breed have had some health problems in the past but the fact is if a problem is found then everything that is possible is done to solve and eradicate this as soon as is possible by the members and their senior management.This means less chance of health
issues within the breed .
Some on here say they are impossible to get let me say they are not I have one and there is one other here.
Some say you have to jump through hundreds of hoops to get one and or travel thousands of miles again you don't.
Some say they are difficult or impossible to train they are also wrong .
What you have to do is agree to abide by their Rules , and if you or anyone else is interested get in touch and I will explain what is expected of the prospected owner of a KBGS ScentHound. What I will say now and this is a fact whatever you decide is fine with me, just make sure you are clear in your own mind what it is you want from your Deer dog as the BGS may not be the correct dog for you and your situation. The BGS is a COLD SCENT specialist not a hot or fresh sent dog there are other breeds much better suited to this type of work in fact most others are better suited to this type of use.
The fact is not many on here believe a cold scent hound has a use here in the UK that's up to them this is a forum for debate and opinions does'nt mean they are right? or wrong ? just their opinion. So I hope you have a better idea of the difference between the two types sorry this is so long and it's not so simple as some think its not about looks.I personally and Wollverine and a few others believe the German way the best to ensure a working history not just one parent old but a hundred years, and strict health checks and training to a high standard to ensure as much as is possible all KBGS hounds are and can do what it says on the box.
Now at last can i say that if you are in the German camp we are accused of being on the high horse, arrogant, and insulting or to personal and boring everyone, well i hope your still reading or they may be right the management that is .As soon as we stand our corner they either bring up the two world wars maybe that's supposed to be funny but i dont think the growing number of German members will think so .Hope Jayb you don't take this personal but it's ok for 6pointed to be aggressive and personal in his post's and then you blame Wolverine,and say he is boring. This has got to be one of the best topics on here always gets a lot of interest from all sides of the fence. OH and 6Bellies or whatever I can misspell to.
Well first may i say to Grant N, Thank You for asking for some advise to help with the confusion and at times Bull, that one see''s and reads on here. What I feel i must say to you is as you may have noticed this is a very touchy and sensitive topic of discussion.
I would like to add that there are some staunch supporters in both camps and so at times it may seem a bit heated or personal occasionally.Well each to his own, OPINION, that is. OK I must at this point say that my feet are in the German camp. Why? because I am that kind of person who looks long and hard before I buy.Maybe it's a Yorkshire thing nah!! it's a personal thing especially when you are talking about DOGS any dogs. Boy you only had to be in the beer tent after a local country show after the terrier or Lurcher show and watch the fights over whose dog should have won or who breeds the best this or that many on here will surely agree so far.
Why the German camp.
Well i spoke to many people here and the UK- BGS soc,this was a few years ago now and I actually joined their ranks to look, watch, and learn more about these scent hounds and realised or should i say came to the conclusion that this way was not for me. Again this is my personal opinion,and the reasons i decided to not go down this route was the lack of real working dogs being bred from, and sadly for the breed the many and serious health issues coming out from should I say to much improper breeding practices . Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I will add that only a few weeks ago i met with the committee of the UK-BGS society on an other matter. I asked them their views on the BGS in the UK , Quote !! it is a DISASTER!was the unanimous answer.They are on here some of them and will no doubt if asked tell you the same. They are trying to educate the owners of this breed many are not members of their soc' and some that are refuse to listen. They are having to re -home so many dogs (BGS) because of health and temprament issues because being a Brittish KC recognised society they must have a rescue within the society. This is becoming serious and they are doing their best but it now is a real problem within this breed.
Now many on here have perfectly healthy, happy, and good natured BGS , dogs and bitches. This is where it gets very complicated and when folks get upset, Please let me say at this point I am not having a go at any ones dog or any persons or owners of BGS in any way. I am simply trying to show to Grant N a few facts and give him an explanation as to what is the situation here in the UK not simple or easy to do.
Fact one Grant , is that all the BGS being bred in the UK at the moment come mostly from Poland or Lithuania or somewhere else. Sadly the first imports were not all from as was believed working and or reputable breeders. Many had underlying health issues and none were accepted as being good enough to be accepted by the official KBGS in Germany That is not only the dogs but the clubs and organisations that advertise , breed and sell them. I guess you realize that a flashy web site with lots of pic's of Boar and Red deer and pretty dogs to some looks the business but sadly can be far from the truth.
The above is and I apologise for it being so long winded the facts of the past history of the BGS in the UK, now would be a good time to say that some do work very well and their owners are very happy with their BGS .Yet there are some that are not so good and there owners or ex -owners might not be so happy as with some other breeds I feel..
As for the German bred dogs.
The KBGS ( Klub for the Bavarian Mountain ScentHound) was founded in 1912 as an officially recognised breed. Since then they have strictly controlled the ownership and breeding of their Hounds. Only Hounds that have passed strict working tests and their conformation is to a certain standard are they eligible to be bred from and then they are only allowed to produce 20 pups per dog. They like every breed have had some health problems in the past but the fact is if a problem is found then everything that is possible is done to solve and eradicate this as soon as is possible by the members and their senior management.This means less chance of health
issues within the breed .
Some on here say they are impossible to get let me say they are not I have one and there is one other here.
Some say you have to jump through hundreds of hoops to get one and or travel thousands of miles again you don't.
Some say they are difficult or impossible to train they are also wrong .
What you have to do is agree to abide by their Rules , and if you or anyone else is interested get in touch and I will explain what is expected of the prospected owner of a KBGS ScentHound. What I will say now and this is a fact whatever you decide is fine with me, just make sure you are clear in your own mind what it is you want from your Deer dog as the BGS may not be the correct dog for you and your situation. The BGS is a COLD SCENT specialist not a hot or fresh sent dog there are other breeds much better suited to this type of work in fact most others are better suited to this type of use.
The fact is not many on here believe a cold scent hound has a use here in the UK that's up to them this is a forum for debate and opinions does'nt mean they are right? or wrong ? just their opinion. So I hope you have a better idea of the difference between the two types sorry this is so long and it's not so simple as some think its not about looks.I personally and Wollverine and a few others believe the German way the best to ensure a working history not just one parent old but a hundred years, and strict health checks and training to a high standard to ensure as much as is possible all KBGS hounds are and can do what it says on the box.
Now at last can i say that if you are in the German camp we are accused of being on the high horse, arrogant, and insulting or to personal and boring everyone, well i hope your still reading or they may be right the management that is .As soon as we stand our corner they either bring up the two world wars maybe that's supposed to be funny but i dont think the growing number of German members will think so .Hope Jayb you don't take this personal but it's ok for 6pointed to be aggressive and personal in his post's and then you blame Wolverine,and say he is boring. This has got to be one of the best topics on here always gets a lot of interest from all sides of the fence. OH and 6Bellies or whatever I can misspell to.
Wow Widu thanks for that post.
That reply has answered most of the things that I needed to know .
Very, very informative. Thank you.
You obviously have done your homework and I am very thankful for taking the time to answer and help me in my decision on choosing the right dog.
Thank you again.
That reply has answered most of the things that I needed to know .
Very, very informative. Thank you.
You obviously have done your homework and I am very thankful for taking the time to answer and help me in my decision on choosing the right dog.
Thank you again.
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
Interesting post widu thankyou for taking the time to write it
Regards
Jimmy
Regards
Jimmy
mereside
Well-Known Member
widu can i ask you,
will the bmh when trained on cold scent work to both hot and cold after training continually on cold scent or does the dog switch off to cold scents if continually put on warm scent, i have spoken to a few people on here as i am just starting all this and i must say none of this is boring to me and i listen to both sides of this debate . I hope this continues as for me there is lots to learn ,thanks wayne
ps going back to the health side i can only see it as a benifit to get the dogs hip tested before breeding and to me the only responcible thing to do .
will the bmh when trained on cold scent work to both hot and cold after training continually on cold scent or does the dog switch off to cold scents if continually put on warm scent, i have spoken to a few people on here as i am just starting all this and i must say none of this is boring to me and i listen to both sides of this debate . I hope this continues as for me there is lots to learn ,thanks wayne
ps going back to the health side i can only see it as a benifit to get the dogs hip tested before breeding and to me the only responcible thing to do .
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
hi mereside,
all i can say on this is that a dog that has trained on cold scent will have no problem on a hot trail, but a dog that has only done hot trails would probably struggle on a cold trail.
all i can say on this is that a dog that has trained on cold scent will have no problem on a hot trail, but a dog that has only done hot trails would probably struggle on a cold trail.
6pointer
Well-Known Member
Good post WIDU and i think you are correct the BMH cant work hot sent and you are correct when some say that the deer stalker of these shores dose not really need a cold scenting dog. You might be correct that no one will need to travel thousands of miles to prove there dogs work. They might not in the future need to travelled abroad to get accepted by the KBGS. But only if it can be done here and at this very moment that cant be done!!.
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