Greenfield Deer Management Group

[Noah]

I attended on February 9th, I thought it was very well organised and the the day went very smoothly. Thanks again to the greenfield commitee, and not forgetting Holly her invaluable help and insights on the forest.

Noah

 

[stag1933]

Greenfield Forest Deer Management Group

Setting the record straight.

There have been several posts recently from individuals making certain allegations and claims about Greenfield Forest and also members of the BDS
We would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight and give everyone an overview without naming names or allowing the matter to become “personal”

Some 20 years ago, a small area of forestry in southern Scotland became available; the area was near Ettrick and called Ramsaygrain / Nether Phawhope Forests. A few members of the North-West BDS Committee were at that time (as they are now) concerned, that there was limited, affordable stalking available for those new to the sport or those with limited disposable income who wished to go stalking.

The lease was secured and the management committee offered stalking to members of the BDS with Woodland Stalkers Certificate (equivalent to DSC1) and a deer legal rifle / insurance. The fees were low, just enough to cover the cost of renewing the lease and cover maintenance of high seats, on site caravan etc.
Of note, is that the BDS were offered the lease by these pioneers, but they declined – the BDS are, as we know, a charity and not solely a stalking organisation.

The Ramsay Grain DMG as it was known continued to offer cheap affordable (if difficult) stalking to members of the BDS from all branches for many years, in fact my first stalking was obtained through this scheme of which one will be eternally grateful.

It is worthy of note at this point that the members who ran the stalking did so without taking anything for themselves and were (and still are volunteers)

The scheme ran very smoothly for a number of years with hundreds of stalkers being introduced to our sport.

Approximately twelve years ago, the group were unsuccessful in renewing the lease for the Scottish forests and new ground was sought out.

That new ground turned out to be an area called Greenfield Forest, near Hawes. The area had a healthy population of Roe, some Sika and was perfect for continuing the stalking scheme – remember to offer cheap, affordable stalking to those who had none or had limited funds spare.

At around that time, the author became involved in running the forest as a committee member.

The forest was ideal, had several substantial high seats, plenty of ground hides and the DMG put in place a static caravan and chiller box container for the stalkers who visited to stay in some comfort.

The years have passed by since the first caravan, this has been changed to newer (drier) models and a healthy relationship was developed between ourselves (Greenfield DMG), the residents of the valley, the forestry management company and other agencies involved in the ecology of the area.

During that time, as one can imagine, it was not always smooth running, the conditions for attending the forest had changed slightly, in that all we asked was that a stalker has DSC1 (minimum), a deer legal rifle and suitable insurance cover ( the condition that only BDS members were allowed was removed as it was felt it excluded everyone else unfairly)

Stalkers visiting the forest were given a set of rules to abide by, a cull sheet and a species seen sheet and providing one met the criteria and had paid your daily fee, you were free to stalk anywhere within the forest area and relied upon by trust and honesty, to inform and pay for any animals shot (at current game dealer rate)

As I said, not everything was smooth running, there were instances when rules had to be imposed, such as the caravan was left in such an unclean state by one group, the next stalkers to attend had to spend a day cleaning it, another instance being that a gralloch was found dumped adjacent to a footpath and found by a dog walker and another time hard gralloch was found dumped not buried.

In all instances the culprits were barred from attending the area for periods of time.

In 2010, more serious problems started to occur;

A stalker in the company of and against the advice of another more experienced stalker, took a shot and killed a deer, which was next to a small inhabited hamlet, which led to complaints from the residents.

The stalker concerned was barred from the forest.

Another incident occurred when two stalkers attended the forest; a deer was culled, when asked at a later date if the attendance was successful, the reply was given that a fox had got the bad news.

Unfortunately for the stalker(s), concerned the cull / extraction was witnessed and when challenged (and after some rather unpleasant e-mails) the stalker eventually agreed a deer had been taken and not declared.

Again, rules had been broken and so a ban from the forest was implemented.

Included in the rules were conditions that there was to be no subletting, to prevent people making a business out of the forest, as you will recall, we do not manage the forest to make money out of it.

It came to the committee’s attention that an individual was charging people to take them stalking there.

Not only that, but on two separate occasions an individual was seen at the forest with firearm without stalking permit, in one of the two instances another person was also present with firearm without permit. This was due to the people without permits looking after (mentoring) two novice stalkers (who had permits). During the visit one of the novices was presented with “ a 300 metre” shot, which the novice declined to take.

Instead of attempting to stalk closer, the “mentor” proceeded to take a shot at and miss the deer concerned.

Again witnessed by third parties and reported to the committee. Quite rightly you will agree, those concerned were barred from the forest.

The recent events were reported to the Forestry Company, who rightly had serious concerns about the running of the forest with regards to deer management. Health and Safety being the primary concern as it being a working forest, the DMG Committee and Forest Company have a duty of care to those working within the forest and its residents.

Having unauthorised people at large with firearms, having people attending who didn’t declare deer taken and having people attending who took shots close to habitation all left the forestry company very concerned about the controls in place / booking procedures and indeed, who were allowed to attend.

In short, there were several grave breaches of the lease (committed by these few individuals) which placed the stalking of approximately 150 people in jeopardy.

It was agreed during numerous meetings between the Greenfield DMG committee and the Forestry Company that the lease was about to be rescinded if measures were not put into place and working practices changed to avoid any chance of repetition of what had occurred.

There was several months of hard work undertaken to make changes to the Forest Rules, undertake an Induction Process on site for all people wishing to stalk at the forest and a capped limit of people whom may be “on the books” as eligible to book at any one time.

We are pleased to report that since the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] September 2012, these new measures are in place, those wishing to attend and stalk at the forest now may, providing they meet the criteria (DSC1, FAC deer legal, Minimum £10,000,000 insurance and having attended an induction where they receive instruction regarding the history of the forest, health and safety, forest rules, boundaries and no shooting areas) There have been a capped limit on numbers imposed so there is now a waiting list for people wishing to be placed onto the list of those “eligible to book”

This is not a syndicate and never has been, there is no annual fee either, you meet the criteria, have an induction and providing there is space available on the eligible to book list (this is full), you may then book stalking.

The first inductions have taken place and harmony has once again returned to the forest. People know what is and importantly what is not expected of them

Despite being in some way responsible for the dramatic changes, there are some who continue to make veiled threats and muttering about being mistreated when “found out”

I say to them that they are lucky not to be answering to a court for their behaviour and at the very least, lucky to retain their firearms….we wish them well in their own stalking, wherever that may be.

This post is not personal, it is not vindictive, inflammatory and does not name names, it is however, in direct response to individuals who have voiced concerns on the internet and in particular over the “Greenfield 6” or whoever it is they wish to call themselves.

Greenfield DMG have no desire or interests in personal vendetta’s and have no interest in anything other than providing a resource (at no personal gain) to others less fortunate than them.

The stalking costs are kept deliberately low and will remain at a level sufficient to cover the annual lease and maintenance costs the DMG incur.

The DMG’s Forest Rules are imposed and actioned upon for the safety, welfare and smooth running of the forest and will remain to be so.

Are any of those persons on the current committee individuals who contravened the above ?


HWH.

 

[Greenfield DMG]

Hubert,


the point of the post was not to name names, but to set the record straight.

None of the Greenfield DMG Committee Members were involved - we have all worked very hard to maintain this stalking ground for several years, we would not put this area at risk.

 

[stag1933]

Thanks.
Many of us worked hard for the benefit of others in past years yet we were still pooped upon by a certain individual.
That is why some of us are no longer members of the BDS.

HWH.

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Thanks.
Many of us worked hard for the benefit of others in past years yet we were still pooped upon by a certain individual.
That is why some of us are no longer members of the BDS.

HWH.

Is that a fair comment Hubert?

Admitadly i dont know the facts but to blame the larger organisation as a whole doesnt seem fair...

Regards

Terry

 

[stag1933]

Is that a fair comment Hubert?

Admitadly i dont know the facts but to blame the larger organisation as a whole doesnt seem fair...

Regards, Terry[Quote.]

It is fair in view of what happened here.
A local Branch official and one of his friends did a range assessment on an area of private ground which had been used as far back as 1984 to do BDS Woodland Stalkers Competence Certificate Tests.
I had rented this ground for 20 years or so prior to that time and still have it in hand today.

This scum-bag falsified the maps he presented to the BDS which removed favourable contour lines and now showed the range firing points in a dangerous situation with regard to a nearby public highway.

BDS deemed the range unfit for purpose and his own private range became the venue for Branch activities.
Neither the BDS or Branch did anything about this even though it was brought up at the Branch AGM.

In view of this some of us have terminated our membership of the BDS.

HWH.

 

[prometheus]

Is that a fair comment Hubert?

Admitadly i dont know the facts but to blame the larger organisation as a whole doesnt seem fair...

Regards, Terry[Quote.]

It is fair in view of what happened here.
A local Branch official and one of his friends did a range assessment on an area of private ground which had been used as far back as 1984 to do BDS Woodland Stalkers Competence Certificate Tests.
I had rented this ground for 20 years or so prior to that time and still have it in hand today.

This scum-bag falsified the maps he presented to the BDS which removed favourable contour lines and now showed the range firing points in a dangerous situation with regard to a nearby public highway.

BDS deemed the range unfit for purpose and his own private range became the venue for Branch activities.
Neither the BDS or Branch did anything about this even though it was brought up at the Branch AGM.

In view of this some of us have terminated our membership of the BDS.

HWH.

I don't blame you for your resignation under the circumstances but I have always found these things are better tackled if your an insider which is almost impossible to do from the outside. If that individual had falsified documents for personal gain at my expense I would have run against him at every opportunity.

 

[Greenfield DMG]

Gents,

posts #44 -47 have nothing to do with Greenfield Deer Management Group.


We are not part of the BDS or any other shooting organization.


If you wish to complain about previous issues you've had at a range, please speak to the relevant bodies concerned.


This thread is about Greenfield DMG - nothing else.

 

[stag1933]

Gents,

posts #44 -47 have nothing to do with Greenfield Deer Management Group.


We are not part of the BDS or any other shooting organization.


If you wish to complain about previous issues you've had at a range, please speak to the relevant bodies concerned.


This thread is about Greenfield DMG - nothing else.

Your own post No.1 does not seem to confirm that and the aforementioned delinquent WAS involved with Ramsaygrain.

HWH.

 

[Greenfield DMG]

Hubert


the matter regarding Bowscar range has nothing whatsoever to do with Greenfield DMG.


The Bowscar Border Stalkers shoots have run very successfully for many years, and I hope many more years to come.


If you read post #1, it is clear that we run this stalking scheme entirely separate from any other shooting organization.


I am fully aware of the issues you have and with whom, this thread is not the place to open up those issues.

 

[stag1933]

If that person is NOT involved with your Greenfield DMG operation then I agree with you.

HWH.

 

[finnbear270]

Just a quick thank you for the efforts of DMG peeps yesterday,not too many groups out there like yours, site management & those members with previous or ongoing help offers excluded of course.

 

[Sinistral]

Just a quick thank you for the efforts of DMG peeps yesterday,not too many groups out there like yours, site management & those members with previous or ongoing help offers excluded of course.

? Sorry but this is too cryptic for me, although I do speak English & get by in other languages. Another induction at a guess - so perhaps this is an encrypted allegiance. Put it in a PM as this is best left alone.

 

[finnbear270]

? Sorry but this is too cryptic for me, although I do speak English & get by in other languages. Another induction at a guess - so perhaps this is an encrypted allegiance. Put it in a PM as this is best left alone.

Lets make it really easy for the febrile shall we?, DMG THANKS TO , on the Greeenfield DMG thread?, not a lot of similar groups out there? Yes /No?,... site management? SD? CLUE?........ excluded ?, as they and others like private members also have done similar?......... English?, yup! looks OK to me in proof readings. you shouldn't advertise you're having to fumble so much buddy.

 

[Sinistral]

Lets make it really easy for the febrile shall we?, DMG THANKS TO , on the Greeenfield DMG thread?, not a lot of similar groups out there? Yes /No?,... site management? SD? CLUE?........ excluded ?, as they and others like private members also have done similar?......... English?, yup! looks OK to me in proof readings. you shouldn't advertise you're having to fumble so much buddy .

I take it you'd intended to say 'senile' rather than feverish..... but who knows? I'm still not clear what your previous post meant, or what the SD site management has to do with GDMG. The above is equally obscure. I think it's best to give up trying to work these posts out. ATB.....

 

[finnbear270]

Senile , ... meaning having previous mental capacity?,... no .. Febrile, childish convulsions, more like.., and the SD site management has nothing to do with the DMG @ Greenfield, like I said, I excluded them from the inference, Oh, 7 don't you think it's time you gave your right eye a chance?............. look it up!

 

[Wireless]

Sounds fantastic, but I'm some ways off being eligible to apply for such a group. Just awaiting confirmation from the BDS that I've got a place on a local DSC1 they are running.

 

[VSS]

Just a quick thank you for the efforts of DMG peeps yesterday,not too many groups out there like yours, site management & those members with previous or ongoing help offers excluded of course.

Perfectly readable.

The DMG people put in a good effort for Finnbear yesterday.
DMG are good chaps, (as are the management of this site and it's helpful and generous members). So says Finnbear.

 

[finnbear270]

DMG Greenfield has gone from strength to strength,& now has an added attraction of yet more woodland,...again, thanks to those on the steering committee,... Long may it continue.

 

[Wingy]

Not bad for all those that got on unlike some who never even got a look in or others who got a place, attended the induction then got axed as it reduced its members. Does this more woodland mean increased number of members or just more land for the few already members?
Wingy