Split 30-06 cases what's the cause likely to be?!

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I have been fairly quiet on this but no perhaps it's time to ramp it up.

I wonder how many of the "experts" have actually see a rifle fired with real excessive head space and not just what they read somewhere?

I was handed a case to take a look at at Reepham Moor ranges and asked my opinion. The case a .308 Winchester had no neck at all. yet it was not a case separation as one might first suspect but the case was fired in a rifle bought as a .308 Winchester but turned out to be a .308 Norma magnum. The case just fire formed to teh chamber. No dramas, no explosions and the bullet struck the target but low.

It was one of the range owners who happened to be spottign for the chap whilst he sighted in his newly acquired rifle and looked down to tell him the shot went low as the shooter ejected the case. Karl saw no neck and at first thought case separation. On examining the case and comparing the elngth to an unfired factory round from the same box it became obvious that there was something amiss.

Examining the rifle one could just make out 308 on top of the barrel reinforce but the scope and mounts obscured a proper look so they retired to the shelter and removed said scope and mounts and low and behold the chamber marking was "308 Norma Mag". Now that is a serious case of excessive headspace but what happened really ? .............................................. Nothign no dramas not bits blown off NADA.

So much for all the doom and gloom predictions.

The shooter packed up went to see the Firearms licensing to explaining the problem and they altered his ticket to suit the chambering. The rifle was the same calibre after all just chambered for a different cartridge. The fault lied with the vendor whom did not check it properly. The new owner then went to Forest Lodge to try and get some ammunition to suit. That proved to be a bit more of a trial as not many places carry .308 Norma Magnum.

May I suggest those with real experience in case separations through Proven head space issues relate them. Those whom have only read about it in a book read some more books. Once we find out if this was as I suspect an ammunition issue or not then we will duely report good or bad assuming Strats does bring it up here at some point.

Of course I am no Gun Smith or rifle smith but I do have old fashioned City & Guilds in Engineering plus a number of years in workshop practice to fall back upon.
 
No it doe'snt want locking it just needs people to engage there brains before posting, my shoulders are wide and old enough to take the stick but I feel sorry for Statts who is new to this and now wishes he had not posted a perfectly good question, which has bee answered by a lot of clever knowledgeble people but also by a lot of dildo's.

You choose what you are
 
No it doe'snt want locking it just needs people to engage there brains before posting, my shoulders are wide and old enough to take the stick but I feel sorry for Statts who is new to this and now wishes he had not posted a perfectly good question, which has bee answered by a lot of clever knowledgeble people but also by a lot of dildo's.

You choose what you are

That made me chuckle and lightened things up a bit. Nah defo keep it open so I can report back when it's sorted.

Kevin, I've been given a number of a riflesmith not 10mins from my work who I was gonna call tmoro. Would it pay for me to take it to him to measure and check over before coming over to you? Don't want to throw your offer of help back in your face by suddenly posting that I've gone elsewhere as it's very much appreciated,

Cheers
 
10 mins is certainly closer than over an hour which it is to me so go for it. Fuel costs beign as they are we all make savings where we can.
 
Quick update photos and an email have been sent to Edgar Bros who in turn are going to forward them to Hornady for comment and the next course of action. As yet, mainly due to time, I have not had the rifle checked and after further advice I thought I'd put the ball in their court.

Will keep you posted,

Cheers
 
Okey dokey chaps we have some progress!!

The 'local' riflesmith that Edgar Bros wanted me to use was well over an hour away so I spoke to a chap reccomended to me today. After a good chat about the rifle, history and the Hornady rounds he suggested I try a couple of the Federals I have purchased and check them over well. This I did this evening and I think it's becoming apparent (as most thought) that the Hornady rounds are over pressure for the cases!

Here's the 2 Federal rounds from this evening.



And here they are alongside the Winchester and remington rounds that Keith sent me for comparison, one of which has been reloaded twice, but I can't remember which one. (Feds on the left)





Hornady have finally responded to an email sent with pictures and they have said they have never seen this kind of deformation before, and they would like the ammo back to do further tests. They did say however that in some cases the flattening of the primers is normal for the Superformance rounds!! Not sure what to make of that tbh?! They are going to replace the batch of ammo I bought but I'm not having the same type again.

Here's the 2 federal primers compared to the Hornadys!!



So to sum up I can now start to use the rifle and begin to get used to the kick. Now where's my ear defenders?! :D

Cheers

Stratts
 
The Federals still don't look right to me. Compare them (photograph them beside) with unfired rounds and you will soon see what I mean.

Not as gross as the Hornady, but ISTM there is a LOT of expansion/stretching occurring at the web.

You could check this yourself very easily with calipers and/or micrometer.

One simple thing, can you easily chamber the empty cases again without resizing, same bolt effort as before ?

Hornady are correct to say that primer flattening is not necessarily an indication of excessive pressure, you have already been told this by several of us. There are several mechanisms other than over-pressure that can cause primer flattening, some benign, some indicative of a serious problem in the rifle.

One of those two cases you were sent has been hammered, the headstamp is unreadable, if that occurred after only 2 reloads I'd be worried, and it would go straight in the scrap bin. I assume it was the Winchester. The other one (Remington, i.e. RP headstamp) looks OK, as you would hope on first firing.

​Please do get the rifle checked out by a knowledgeable 'smith with go/nogo headspace gauges sooner rather than later.

Personally I wouldn't use it again until it has been dimensionally checked. And I wouldn't expect Hornady to take you seriously until you have done so, as requested by EB.
 
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Just to clear something up which sounds confusing on my last post, EB didn't insist on the gun being checked, they just wanted to swap the ammo. When I said about getting it checked over they gave me someone they wanted me to use who is over an hour drive away, which to me isn't local!

They have since agreed to pay for it to be checked over by the chap I've spoken to and after mulling it over last night that's what I shall be doing, just for peace of mind. I sincerely hope the rifle is ok for obvious reasons, but it'll be what it'll be!!
 
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Just to clear something up which sounds confusing on my last post, EB didn't insist on the gun being checked, they just wanted to swap the ammo. When I said about getting it checked over they gave me someone they wanted me to use who is over an hour drive away, which to me isn't local!

They have since agreed to pay for it to be checked over by the chap I've spoken to and after mulling it over last night that's what I shall be doing, just for peace of mind. I sincerely hope the rifle is ok for obvious reasons, but it'll be what it'll be!!


Good luck I hope everything is fine, though I dont doubt it wouldnt be.

Nutty
 
Just to go off on a little tangent, what is the idea of 'superformance' .30-'06 rounds especially for the UK market? How much do they cost?
 
No idea mate the only reason I bought them was they were the only 150gr rounds in the shop when I picked up the rifle!! I paid about £22 for 20 which included the 10% off you get for being in BASC!!

That's interesting Bewsh I might just pass those links on!!
 
It's bad news!!

Just had word back from the gunshop that the aught 6 has a headspace issue with the bolt closing on the no-go guage!! I don't know any more than that but it's enough to render the rifle legally unusable as it's out of proof apparantly! :(

Bit of a blow obviously but a good thing that it's been checked. Unfortunately looking at a hefty bill for repairs and reproofing, etc, so a decision to be made.

Still a kind gesture by Keith and it's just one of those things I guess,

Cheers

Stratts
 
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why would a headspace issue mean it is out of proof?

isn't it a quick skim off the tenon and refit to resolve?
shouldn't be too tricky
 
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