BASC welcomes police intent to remove unnecessary FAC conditions

[Simon Clarke]

New guidance to police forces to remove unnecessary conditions on the use of lawful firearms has been welcomed by the UK's largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC).Andy Marsh, Chief Constable of Hampshire and the lead in firearms licensing issues for the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has sent new guidance to English & Welsh police forces about the use of conditions on firearm certificates.
Currently some police forces in England and Wales restrict licensed firearms to specific quarry. Under these conditions someone authorised to use a large calibre rifle for shooting deer could break the law if they shoot a fox. Chief Constable Marsh has suggested that forces allow certificate holders to shoot any lawful quarry on land where they are authorised to shoot.
Chief Constable Marsh has also advised police forces to re-examine conditions which can require a certificate holder to be accompanied by a mentor during shooting trips. He recommends that training courses offered by organisations such as BASC would be a better solution if an applicant needs more experience.
Mike Eveleigh, senior firearms officer at BASC said: “One of the most common complaints that we deal with on behalf of our members is difficulties with conditions on firearm certificates. We have been negotiating for years to get unnecessary, bureaucratic and unenforceable conditions removed. This is a common-sense and helpful move by Chief Constable Marsh and his staff."
BASC members who believe they have unnecessary conditions on their firearm certificate are advised to contact the BASC firearms department on 01244 573010 for advice.

To see this press release on the BASC website: http://bit.ly/16Okv8M

 

[waterford103]

New guidance to police forces to remove unnecessary conditions on the use of lawful firearms has been welcomed by the UK's largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC).Andy Marsh, Chief Constable of Hampshire and the lead in firearms licensing issues for the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has sent new guidance to English & Welsh police forces about the use of conditions on firearm certificates.
Currently some police forces in England and Wales restrict licensed firearms to specific quarry. Under these conditions someone authorised to use a large calibre rifle for shooting deer could break the law if they shoot a fox. Chief Constable Marsh has suggested that forces allow certificate holders to shoot any lawful quarry on land where they are authorised to shoot.
Chief Constable Marsh has also advised police forces to re-examine conditions which can require a certificate holder to be accompanied by a mentor during shooting trips. He recommends that training courses offered by organisations such as BASC would be a better solution if an applicant needs more experience.
Mike Eveleigh, senior firearms officer at BASC said: “One of the most common complaints that we deal with on behalf of our members is difficulties with conditions on firearm certificates. We have been negotiating for years to get unnecessary, bureaucratic and unenforceable conditions removed. This is a common-sense and helpful move by Chief Constable Marsh and his staff."
BASC members who believe they have unnecessary conditions on their firearm certificate are advised to contact the BASC firearms department on 01244 573010 for advice.

To see this press release on the BASC website: http://bit.ly/16Okv8M

We need to be careful ,removal of useless conditions is a good move but we don't want dsc1-2 applied instead .

 

[CharlieT]

Is this the first step towards mandatory training, which BASC has in the past stated they do not support.

 

[Pine Marten]

Is this the first step towards mandatory training, which BASC has in the past stated they do not support.

Oh come on, give the guys some credit where it's due! Besides, would you rather have a clear training programme run by shooting organisations with no-quibble criteria, or a hodgepodge of random restrictions applied for obscure reasons?

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

We need to be careful ,removal of useless conditions is a good move but we don't want dsc1-2 applied instead .

+1 Jimbo

 

[al4x1]

You won't though Pine Martin till any of the departments actually take any notice, this is just a jolly little meeting to justify a bit of lunch and make some suggestions. AOLQ has been suggested before and those that don't like it just ignore it, as for the training well should be good for business as long as you don't end up with mentors and training being required.

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

Is this the first step towards mandatory training, which BASC has in the past stated they do not support.

Good question.

Jimbo

 

[geoshot]

A welcome statement from BASC and out of 6 replies so far only one has been positive, that's becoming a bit too typical....
It would seem some folk are just resolutely negative about BASC and/or DSC1 or 2

 

[David63]

We believe this is a big step in the right direction.

BASC remains all for self-regulation and against mandatory testing as does her majesty’s government and BASC’s elected Council have made their decision on this and I see no prospect of change on this stance, and I trust all the shooting community will join us in that position.

Should any BASC member applicants be directed to training courses without justification or where other suitable evidence of experience is being ignored by chief officers; we will continue to work with Mr Marsh’s office to ensure this behaviour is nipped in the bud.

In essence there should only be a need to undertake further training (formal or otherwise) where the applicant lacks any experience in handling a rifle that the chief officer is minded to refuse the certificate or variation because of the perceived risk to public safety.

David

 

[Donkey Basher]

Have had first hand experience of this; sent my FAC into Hants Police for a variation and at the same time asked them to remove a variety of conditions that have accumulated over time and replace with nice clean sensible 'consolidated' ones as per ACPO FELWG letter from last year; FAC was returned three days later all nice and tidy, exactly as I had asked.

A real joy compared to the response and time taken when I have had renewals or variations in the past.

Credit where credit is due I say.

 

[Bertie Leblanc]

We believe this is a big step in the right direction.

BASC remains all for self-regulation and against mandatory testing as does her majesty’s government and BASC’s elected Council have made their decision on this and I see no prospect of change on this stance, and I trust all the shooting community will join us in that position.

Should any BASC member applicants be directed to training courses without justification or where other suitable evidence of experience is being ignored by chief officers; we will continue to work with Mr Marsh’s office to ensure this behaviour is nipped in the bud.

In essence there should only be a need to undertake further training (formal or otherwise) where the applicant lacks any experience in handling a rifle that the chief officer is minded to refuse the certificate or variation because of the perceived risk to public safety.

David

I went for self regulation which is why I did the DSC1 before applying for a .308

 

[timbrayford]

This really is a good positive step, and I am pleased to see that Hampshire Police appear to be taking a more commonsense based approach to lawful firearms ownership.atb Tim

 

[RickoShay]

A positive step, although I suspect the compromise will be training required before grant for new shooters.
Fundamentally that is the same as target shooters probationary requirements; so unlikely to affect those who already have FAC for stalking/fox.

Disagree with the view that it would have 'just been a jolly meeting'. The ACPO rep (Chief or ACC) for such matters would be taken seriously by the majority of other Forces, although personally I have always favoured 'self regulation', but it only takes one idiot to abuse that and we have rules put upon us.

 

[Lampwick]

I would have been happy to had taken a course/exam to prove I was safe enough to handle a firearm and quite like the idea of mandatory training to help protect me and others in the future from novice shooters.

Ive seen some rather bad gun awareness over the years by experienced shooters let alone beginners!

So long as the training market is open to competition!!!!

 

[finnbear270]

I have to agree that the shooting organisation's, & B.A.S.C. more than likely than not, in the forefront, have finally obtained a friend in high places, (A.C.P.O.).. When Cheshire starts issuing A.O.L.Q., it's evident something has finally shifted in the logjam that still is in some forces, great,... A large part of the workload has been undertaken by Mike Eveleigh, not without support from the firearms dept at Marford Mill I hasten to add, So, light at the end of a very long tunnel, (Maybe)

 

[teyhan1]

We need to be careful ,removal of useless conditions is a good move but we don't want dsc1-2 applied instead .

I am prepared to stick my head above the parapet on this one.
I do not think that DSC1 prepares you nearly enough for shooting a deer. It is my belief that DSC1 should be the precursor to getting a ticket and that DSC2 should be when you are allowed to go out on your own.
I take people out stalking. I often ask about DSC1 and whether or not it prepared them for what comes after the shot. DSC1 does not address this issue, only DSC2 does.
Do I want to see mandatory DSC1 & 2 before your out on your own..............YES, not necessarily for the sake of the deer, but for knowing what comes afterwards

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

A welcome statement from BASC and out of 6 replies so far only one has been positive, that's becoming a bit too typical....
It would seem some folk are just resolutely negative about BASC and/or DSC1 or 2

I am lev 1 & 2, RCO and have various other shooting related qualifications. I did them because i wanted to not because i was required to do so before FAC was granted.

Jimbo

 

[waterford103]

I am lev 1 & 2, RCO and have various other shooting related qualifications. I did them because i wanted to not because i was required to do so before FAC was granted.

Jimbo

+1 --- it's about choice --- not force.

 

[Dalua]

I am prepared to stick my head above the parapet on this one.
I do not think that DSC1 prepares you nearly enough for shooting a deer. It is my belief that DSC1 should be the precursor to getting a ticket and that DSC2 should be when you are allowed to go out on your own.
I take people out stalking. I often ask about DSC1 and whether or not it prepared them for what comes after the shot. DSC1 does not address this issue, only DSC2 does.
Do I want to see mandatory DSC1 & 2 before your out on your own..............YES, not necessarily for the sake of the deer, but for knowing what comes afterwards

Does this have anthing to do with the grant or otherwise of FAC/SGC, though? I understood that the only considerations for that relate to safety of the public.

The arguements for or against some kind of mandatory qualification before shooting live quarry are surely something completely different: and presumably would apply whether we're talking about the use of an airgun to shoot a bunny, a shotgun to shoot a pheasant or a rifle to shoot a stag.

 

[teyhan1]

Does this have anthing to do with the grant or otherwise of FAC/SGC, though? I understood that the only considerations for that relate to safety of the public.

The arguements for or against some kind of mandatory qualification before shooting live quarry are surely something completely different: and presumably would apply whether we're talking about the use of an airgun to shoot a bunny, a shotgun to shoot a pheasant or a rifle to shoot a stag.

If they are something completely different then why do the Police ask for DSC1 when a simple shooting test is all that should be required from a safety perspective. DSC1 proves very little about safety. On the other hand DSC2 shows in real life situations that you are up to the job