BASC welcomes police intent to remove unnecessary FAC conditions

[teyhan1]

IMO the only reason there is not a safety issue is because of the Police stance on training.
I am not a supporter of the police or their seemingly arbitary interpretation of the law.
If firearms were licensed in he same way as SGC how long would it take before problems began to rear their head?

 

[teyhan1]

To put it another way, the 'self regulation' aspect appears to me to work because the Police issue FAC/SGC to those whom they believe will regulate themselves: so although the new FAC-holder might in a way seem to have 'Carte Blanche to blast away at whatever he likes' (as you so colourfully put it), an FAC will have been granted on the basis that he's sensible and responsible enough not to do so.

This is absolutely not true.
The police give licenses based on need. They do not care about what you shoot when you have your license as long as you comply with the conditions on that license.

 

[beretta682]

This sounds very promising.

 

[shep7376]

Seems a little strange to me that people are so against mandatory DSC training. Many countries in the Western world insist on formal qualification before you can hunt. Would it really be such a bad move? You never know, they may even decide that shooting on public land may be in the best interest of wildlife management. When I go to Canada I can shoot over half the country because I qualified in Hunters Education, ditto for Germany as well due to taking the Jagdschein (spelling may be a little off there).

It would be interesting as to the experience of those apposed to DSC, is it the lifelong stalkers who 'never needed it' just against change?

Personally I believe that some change must be made, not just in shooting; it should be embraced not opposed.

Of course this does not mean that private companies or the shooting associations should be making a profit from us, if it is mandated then it must be affordable to all and not the financially elite.

Look over this forum and you'll see many threads regarding land checks and supervisory conditions, if formal qualification and shooting on public land was available these conditions would be redundant; can anyone present a good argument against this?

​Hunting is a privilege for those who make the conscience decision to follow this amazing sport, it is not a business opportunity for the Police, associations or the privateer.

Just my thoughts.

Pete

 

[timbrayford]

If firearms were licensed in he same way as SGC how long would it take before problems began to rear their head?

Probably never, the background to the separate definitions of shotguns and rifles arises largely because George V did not wish to be deposed like his cousins, shooting deer etc just didn't come into it. atb Tim

 

[Lee Clarke]

I"ve had a visit from my FEO today and the new conditions are already now in force in Staffordshire. Rather than specific breeds my .243win will state 'Deer and other suitable quarry' much more sensible.

I must say also, what an excellent and speedy service Ive received from staffs and heard the horror stories of other forces!

 

[al4x1]

I"ve had a visit from my FEO today and the new conditions are already now in force in Staffordshire. Rather than specific breeds my .243win will state 'Deer and other suitable quarry' much more sensible.

I must say also, what an excellent and speedy service Ive received from staffs and heard the horror stories of other forces!

what is "suitable" would be my issue its not as per the wording AOLQ you could turn round and have them say its not suitable for rabbits for instance.

 

[DaveK]

Agreed, DSC1 would help you acquire some essential Deer knowledge though...

Considered really helpful for those who don't want to shoot deer. In principle I agree with the idea but what would have to be put in place for those who don't want to shoot deer? What would be put in place for those who wanted to stop at rabbits and not progress to foxes. Wouldtraining be applied only to quarry shooting with rifles ot would pigeon shooting with shotguns be included.

As has been said many times before. There's a can of worms waiting to be opened.

BTW, being well known on other forums (undeservedly may I add) as a BASC basher, well done BASC. You just need to keep the pressure on individual firearms departments now to make sure they get the message. YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

 

[DaveK]

This is absolutely not true.
The police give licenses based on need. They do not care about what you shoot when you have your license as long as you comply with the conditions on that license.

I'm lost for words. Well not repeatable ones anyway.

 

[Taff]

IMO the only reason there is not a safety issue is because of the Police stance on training.
I am not a supporter of the police or their seemingly arbitary interpretation of the law.
If firearms were licensed in he same way as SGC how long would it take before problems began to rear their head?

Rubbish most stalkers / hunters / shooters have never received a days formal training in there lives, if courses were required, a basic safety course is all that is required, the decision to issue a SGC is the same for a FAC, what we need is to be able to swap our rifles in the same way as our shotguns, it works in NZ so why not here. There is no logical reason to expect problems to arise, as you already have a gun

Shep as to hunting on public land Hell freezing over comes to mind

 

[David63]

Dave K,

On a personal note, I know you and I have crossed swords as it were in the past, but I value your views and would not consider you a BASC basher - although as you say some may... and yes there are some forces out there that will need more than a bit of pressure applied!

David

 

[Yorkie]

Dave K,

On a personal note, I know you and I have crossed swords as it were in the past, but I value your views and would not consider you a BASC basher - although as you say some may... and yes there are some forces out there that will need more than a bit of pressure applied!

David

The first to be granted AOLQ from West Yorks wins a Bun.

Yorkie.

 

[DaveK]

The first to be granted AOLQ from West Yorks wins a Bun.

Yorkie.

I'll even buy that bun. But it depends on where in West Yorks. In some parts a bun is a cake.

But I'm not saying too much or they might remove fox from my .22rf condition. shhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[CWMMAN3738]

Gwent may also be one David.
I would however like to know BASC's position on the following I understand they want conditions abolished and are against compulsory training, no problem there, But when that's achieved wot's to atop some idiot who gets a licence and land with deer on and going out and making a mess of deer & or other animals and if this event was publicised think of the damage it would do to our sport.
IMHO i think something needs to be in place and a mandatory requirement is in our interests to adopt even if it's just a set of questions from the FEO on animal anatomy, shot placement, , ( as many Feo do anyway) etc just like a driving licence theory test but is mandatory ( maybe not dsc but maybe a Live Quarry compitency test )before your licence is endorsd for deer & AOLQ, anything that protects our sport and paints it in a positive proactive light, before it bites us in the ass again and we have to go on the defensive again.
prevention is better than cure!
​

Dave K,

On a personal note, I know you and I have crossed swords as it were in the past, but I value your views and would not consider you a BASC basher - although as you say some may... and yes there are some forces out there that will need more than a bit of pressure applied!

David

 

[DaveK]

But when that's achieved wot's to atop some idiot who gets a licence and land with deer on and going out and making a mess of deer & or other animals and if this event was publicised think of the damage it would do to our sport.

​

What's to stop them now??

 

[CWMMAN3738]

Usually mentoring conditions & restrictions etc on their first licence. But not if abolished!
not looking for an argument just thinking "WOT IF" as I said we need to protect our sport, prevention is better than cure!

Originally Posted by CWMMAN3738
But when that's achieved wot's to atop some idiot who gets a licence and land with deer on and going out and making a mess of deer & or other animals and if this event was publicised think of the damage it would do to our sport.

​



What's to stop them now??

 

[waterford103]

The one thing that is accepted is that membership of a club is the only way for shooters to obtain a FAC for target shooting ,a six month trial as a novice whilst being mentored and observed for SAFE HANDLING and attitude .Those who don't meet those standards don't get granted a full membership and therefore don't get an FAC.
As I understand it ,the remit of the granting authority is with respect to public safety.Membership of a club ,learning safety ,firearms handling and discipline is a six month journey involving lots of friendly advice on types and calibres etc ,many clubs run courses on SAFE reloading,ours does.After grant surely it's possible that ,having learned about SAFE HANDLING AND USE ,that the membership of the club who stalk can advise / mentor on safe stalking and hygene practise .All without recourse to onerous conditions .

 

[timbrayford]

The one thing that is accepted is that membership of a club is the only way for shooters to obtain a FAC for target shooting ,a six month trial as a novice whilst being mentored and observed for SAFE HANDLING and attitude .Those who don't meet those standards don't get granted a full membership and therefore don't get an FAC.
As I understand it ,the remit of the granting authority is with respect to public safety.Membership of a club ,learning safety ,firearms handling and discipline is a six month journey involving lots of friendly advice on types and calibres etc ,many clubs run courses on SAFE reloading,ours does.After grant surely it's possible that ,having learned about SAFE HANDLING AND USE ,that the membership of the club who stalk can advise / mentor on safe stalking and hygene practise .All without recourse to onerous conditions .

+1, I agree, one of the more positive aspects of S1 target shooting rules is this compulsory probationary period, not only does it give the applicant the opportunity to learn the basics of safe and competent rifle handling, it also gives their shooting colleagues the chance of observing whether they have a genuine interest in shooting sports. It must be very difficult for FEO's to carry out this sort of assessment within the space of a relatively short interview.

Perhaps there is a place for this sort probationary period before granting FACs for live quarry shooting and also SGCs for S2 Shotguns?

atb Tim

 

[David63]

The issue of daft conditions is not in relation to new or inexperienced shooters- they will still be conditioned in some cases where they can show no experience.

What we ,and others, have been working against is mentoring or training conditions being placed on experienced shooters just because they want their existing certificate varied to include deer for example.

As you may all know the NGO have organised a large seminar with ACPO and invited licencing managers to it in September. I am pleased to say BASC will be there giving a presentation, and as I understand it almost 40 licencing people have replied to say they are coming. This will be great opportunity to speak face to face to almost all licencing teams at one time - and push through again the message for the needs in licencing for fairness and consistency.

David

 

[CWMMAN3738]

Thanks David but that doesn't answer my question, Wot is BASC's position with relation to some sort of mandatory test/training before being allowed to shoot live quarry unless experience can be shown now that some licencing restrictions are being removed

The issue of daft conditions is not in relation to new or inexperienced shooters- they will still be conditioned in some cases where they can show no experience.

What we ,and others, have been working against is mentoring or training conditions being placed on experienced shooters just because they want their existing certificate varied to include deer for example.

As you may all know the NGO have organised a large seminar with ACPO and invited licencing managers to it in September. I am pleased to say BASC will be there giving a presentation, and as I understand it almost 40 licencing people have replied to say they are coming. This will be great opportunity to speak face to face to almost all licencing teams at one time - and push through again the message for the needs in licencing for fairness and consistency.

David