Custom build vs Off the Shelf

[jcampbellsmith]

I spent a couple of hours last Saturday with my buddy breaking in and testing loads through his new Blaser R8 in 30/06. Rifle and mounts probably cost over two and a half grand. ......

I don't think there's an easy answer to the question. I see some folk coming late into shooting and shooting very well with Blasers. Personally, I've muddled about with Rugers, a Sauer 90, a Sako 75 and I now have one custom rifle and one semi-custom rifle (see Gallery). I like the flexibility the Remingtons and Remington clones bring to the party, especially around stock and trigger choice.

You can read up lots on the topic, but until you've spent your own money and made your own mistakes, you won't really have a feel for where you want to be.

Have fun.

​JCS

 

[Jager SA]

Interesting thread but nobody has mentioned costs of semi custom builds as such against costs of factory rifles.

So what is a good price for a semi custom build?

 

[jamross65]

Interesting thread but nobody has mentioned costs of semi custom builds as such against costs of factory rifles.

So what is a good price for a semi custom build?

James

In my experience its surprising how cheap it can be done for relative to factory rifles. And I don't mean mates rates either!

I have normally picked up a reasonable or good conditioned rifle as the donor action. Remmingtons have never cost me more than £600 for that purpose, normally considerably less as the condition can be worked on and all other parts are being binned anyway. A button rifled stainless barrel fitted, £500-£600 maximum. I have normally used McMillan stocks which are probably the dearest option but I have a rifle in a Boyd's laminated thumbhole stock that I rate highly at a fraction of the cost of a McMillan. laminate stock and bedding work around £300-£400???

either get the trigger worked on (£30) to keep cost down or get custom built trigger like a Jewell for not much shy of £300 but not necessary. If the action needs work (blue printing) perhaps another £150???

So, roughly speaking £500 for action, £500 for barrel, £400-£650 for the stock and bedding depending on what you go for, £30 trigger work, £150 for work on action. £1600-£2000 give or take a hundred quid or so for a rifle with a stock that fits your needs and size perfectly, the weight to balance the rifle for its intended purpose, the length and profile of barrel that's suits the bullets, powder etc you intend to use as well as how the rifle will be used and shot...

£1600 is less than the list price of a new Sako nowadays...

 

[Jager SA]

James

In my experience its surprising how cheap it can be done for relative to factory rifles. And I don't mean mates rates either!

I have normally picked up a reasonable or good conditioned rifle as the donor action. Remmingtons have never cost me more than £600 for that purpose, normally considerably less as the condition can be worked on and all other parts are being binned anyway. A button rifled stainless barrel fitted, £500-£600 maximum. I have normally used McMillan stocks which are probably the dearest option but I have a rifle in a Boyd's laminated thumbhole stock that I rate highly at a fraction of the cost of a McMillan. laminate stock and bedding work around £300-£400???

either get the trigger worked on (£30) to keep cost down or get custom built trigger like a Jewell for not much shy of £300 but not necessary. If the action needs work (blue printing) perhaps another £150???

So, roughly speaking £500 for action, £500 for barrel, £400-£650 for the stock and bedding depending on what you go for, £30 trigger work, £150 for work on action. £1600-£2000 give or take a hundred quid or so for a rifle with a stock that fits your needs and size perfectly, the weight to balance the rifle for its intended purpose, the length and profile of barrel that's suits the bullets, powder etc you intend to use as well as how the rifle will be used and shot...

£1600 is less than the list price of a new Sako nowadays...

Yep I think that's fair cost analysis, I agree with what you've said. I'm aware of how long stuff takes and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a button rifle barrel as opposed to a cut rifle barrel.

 

[achosenman]

Yep I think that's fair cost analysis, I agree with what you've said. I'm aware of how long stuff takes and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a button rifle barrel as opposed to a cut rifle barrel.

I agree,when you consider that a barrel is a throw away item like tyres on a car, having a cut barrel makes no sense on a stalking rifle.
I've had three Krieger barrels on a Sako 75 based stalking rifle, I won't be getting another. All the Pac Nor's I've had shot just as well for what we do, but cost less. They all shoot out the throat eventually. From experience, there seems to be nothing in it.

ATB

 

[Hales Smut]

What about an "improved" factory Remmy ? Buying a 700 SPS, have it properly bedded in his stock or in an ultra light stock from PSE , have the trigger worked at about 2 pounds, tactical bolt knob, barrel shortened at 20" recrowned and threated. Would that not be O.K. for all possible stalking situations? If there is still some spare money you can alwaus add an aftermarket magazine system. What would be the price of this? It seems that Bergara make very intresting pre threated/chambered barrels at a very good price.

 

[Jager SA]

I agree,when you consider that a barrel is a throw away item like tyres on a car, having a cut barrel makes no sense on a stalking rifle.
I've had three Krieger barrels on a Sako 75 based stalking rifle, I won't be getting another. All the Pac Nor's I've had shot just as well for what we do, but cost less. They all shoot out the throat eventually. From experience, there seems to be nothing in it.

ATB

Absolutely, like I've said on another thread, Bergara barrels are perfect for a stalking rifle. I've fitted several button rifle barrels and hand lapped them, they shoot brilliantly. There is nothing to be gained from a cut rifle barrel, you get good and bad in both.

£200 plus fitting and proofing for a Bergara, I know what I'd have.

Heres a test group from Bergara barrel with a basic start load @ 100 yds

 

[Monkey Spanker]

I'm currently having a Sako 75 'Pimped' which I should get back later this week. I'll do a little write up with some photos and costings as an example of what can be done.
MS

 

[bobjs]

Factory rifle vs semi custom build? No contest, semi custom, and wouldn't cost much more than the factory stick.As I've said before, it doesn't have to cost the earth.

this man speaks the truth


semi custom or full on as and what you want on it all paid for at the start and not going back and forth to the shops trying to make it shoot better etc,


bob.

ps: if i had 2 grand i'd be very very happy, but i only need about £600 and i'd have a cracking rifle all around.

bob.

 

[Jager SA]

What about an "improved" factory Remmy ? Buying a 700 SPS, have it properly bedded in his stock or in an ultra light stock from PSE , have the trigger worked at about 2 pounds, tactical bolt knob, barrel shortened at 20" recrowned and threated. Would that not be O.K. for all possible stalking situations? If there is still some spare money you can alwaus add an aftermarket magazine system. What would be the price of this? It seems that Bergara make very intresting pre threated/chambered barrels at a very good price.

Yes why not but once you factor in the cost of a new sps (£600-£750) plus the additional work required you getting into semi custom pricing.

I wouldn't go with a pre chambered barrel because they are certain to need additional work before fitting.

 

[Jager SA]

this man speaks the truth


semi custom or full on as and what you want on it all paid for at the start and not going back and forth to the shops trying to make it shoot better etc,


bob.

ps: if i had 2 grand i'd be very very happy, but i only need about £600 and i'd have a cracking rifle all around.

bob.

A man who sees the light...£600 will get you a new barrel for sure. Shop around for a second hand action, nothing wrong with Howa, and then add up what the other bits cost, stock (B&C Boyds) mounting system, trigger and you're on your way to top semi custom.

 

[d foxxer]

jagersa [Jamie ] you say theres nothing wrong with a button barrel on a stalking rifle and bergara's are buttond what is your opinion on these barrels for long range vermin and would a bergara last as long as a cut barrel I have read what you said in another thread and am seriously mulling it over in my head

 

[Jager SA]

jagersa [Jamie ] you say theres nothing wrong with a button barrel on a stalking rifle and bergara's are buttond what is your opinion on these barrels for long range vermin and would a bergara last as long as a cut barrel I have read what you said in another thread and am seriously mulling it over in my head

Why wouldn't it last? The material is the same, the only difference is one is cut with a cutter box and cutter the other a button, which doesn't cut but uses force to splay material to form the rifling. Don't forget the depth of rifling is on around .0025 -.0050 in the lands and groove for standard calibres.

 

[BunnyDoom]

Jäger SA (James) does excellent work IMO, and is reasonably timely as far as I can tell (from my own and others experiences). Why not pimp out a tikka or Remington?

The issue with custom rifles doesn't seem to be the quality, as these guys only get work if the rifles come out as shooters. Even the semi custom I have that I had a lot of trouble with shoots well (wont mention the smith).

The issues with custom work IMO are cost and timescale - you could be looking at 6-12 months wait and a bill well in excess of what you would pay for a factory rifle that shoots just as well.

Jäger SA charges a sensible amount and turnaround seems relatively quick so that's who I'd use. Otherwise get a top of the range rifle delivered to your RFD in a week or two. Nothing wrong with spending your money on what you like - guns are like cars I reckon (I much preferred my Audi, but the ****ty old landrover I drive now does the same job)

 

[Frog]

May or may not be a consideration but I am assured by someone in the trade who buys and sells lots of rifles that a good name factory rifle will hold value better than a custom. But then again if you're not going to sell it because you have your dream rifle hardly matters.

I've come close to having a custom or semi custom built but each time a Sako, Sauer or Blaser has floated my boat and they're a known quantity. We are very fortunate these days as there are very few bad rifles. Except for some of the more fickle smaller calibres I've never had a rifle which shot worse than 1" and all less than that with reloads.
​

 

[jamross65]

May or may not be a consideration but I am assured by someone in the trade who buys and sells lots of rifles that a good name factory rifle will hold value better than a custom. But then again if you're not going to sell it because you have your dream rifle hardly matters.

I've come close to having a custom or semi custom built but each time a Sako, Sauer or Blaser has floated my boat and they're a known quantity. We are very fortunate these days as there are very few bad rifles. Except for some of the more fickle smaller calibres I've never had a rifle which shot worse than 1" and all less than that with reloads.
​

Frog

You (or your friend) make a good point but it also backs up what I said earlier about a bespoke rifle.

Many stalkers see a make like Sako and Tikka as being the bench mark. But they are a compromise in some respect as I would bet that most owners you speak to if asked would be able to come up with something, no matter how small, that they would perhaps like to change or be a bit different. Weight, balance, length of pull, drop at comb, material, just the feel even. It's not really about the accuracy as I said earlier I have had factory rifles with homeloads I can't better with a custom rifle. What I have though, accuracy aside is a rifle that ticks every single other box because I built it.

That in turn is probably why a secondhand custom rifle is a difficult thing to sell. Because the potential customer base for a custom, will also have something set in their mind as to what makes the perfect rifle for them. It would be coincidence that your one for sale will meet their requirements exactly.

It's good that some rifle builders are prepared to mention prices openly on here as it may open up other alternatives to folk that always felt they were out of their reach or too complected to even consider...

 

[Hales Smut]

I don't know in the UK, but in Belgium a "custom" rifle on a Remmmy action would not make an extra euro over a factory remmy on the secondhand market. Blaser, Sauer,... would keep their value a lot better. Whatever parts used you would never get more than 700 to 1000 euro for it. For this reason I would favor a semi custom with a less a possible extras to pay for.
What accuracy would be reasonable acceptable from a properly bedded factory 700 SPS? By this I mean : bedded properly by a competent gunsmith, good crown and decent trigger. Can you expect cloverleaf 3 shot groups ( something like 3 bullets in 3/4 of an inch ) ?

 

[Jager SA]

I don't know in the UK, but in Belgium a "custom" rifle on a Remmmy action would not make an extra euro over a factory remmy on the secondhand market. Blaser, Sauer,... would keep their value a lot better. Whatever parts used you would never get more than 700 to 1000 euro for it. For this reason I would favor a semi custom with a less a possible extras to pay for.
What accuracy would be reasonable acceptable from a properly bedded factory 700 SPS? By this I mean : bedded properly by a competent gunsmith, good crown and decent trigger. Can you expect cloverleaf 3 shot groups ( something like 3 bullets in 3/4 of an inch ) ?

​I would expect 3 shots in 3/4" from pretty much any rifle providing you do your part.

 

[RickoShay]

​I would expect 3 shots in 3/4" from pretty much any rifle providing you do your part.

This says it all for me, sub MOA at 100yds from a rifle and good quality glass for sight picture; that takes you to 400m for small deer, and very few will shoot at this range
As a GunMart chum of mine says (he has shot and tested a lot of rifles) a Tikka will do everything a stalker needs at a value for money cost, very well; but we like choice.
He shoots a hard to find HS Precision (one of many superb rifles he owns!).

 

[Jager SA]

This says it all for me, sub MOA at 100yds from a rifle and good quality glass for sight picture; that takes you to 400m for small deer, and very few will shoot at this range
As a GunMart chum of mine says (he has shot and tested a lot of rifles) a Tikka will do everything a stalker needs at a value for money cost, very well; but we like choice.
He shoots a hard to find HS Precision (one of many superb rifles he owns!).

But like you say we like choice...as a result most rifles will be found lacking to some perspective buyers, T3 included. I guess you could argue it's progression, we've all bought factory rifles new and SH but what folk may not be aware (As jamross65 said) is a semi custom build doesn't cost the earth
and will tick all your boxes!