Anyone want to warn me away from any of this kit?

[bewsher500]

As others have said buy the best you can afford and the best is German, however reading some posts some seem to have little idea of what its like to have a limited amount of cash, or priority's that, that mean stalking gear has to take second place.

not one of my CF rifles has cost me more than £50-100
none of my scopes has cost more than £150 ...... every single one of them is better than a Hawke!

they get used hard and they shoot very well (often better than much much more expensive equipment)

 

[bewsher500]

not one of my CF rifles has cost me more than £50-100
none of my scopes has cost more than £150 ...... every single one of them is better than a Hawke!

they get used hard and they shoot very well (often better than much much more expensive equipment)

get this!
bargain if it stays under £150-175

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350857561998?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

[teabag_46]

Currently, a Leupold 4-33 on ebay uk for £150.00 with 3 days left.

 

[joe soapy]

When looking for the rifle, be aware that there is a very wide difference between what a RFD will be asking and what a seller
will be offered for his rifle when it has to be sold. Also you have a much better chance of test shooting a private sale gun

 

[neutron619]

There are too many posts to reply to for me to address all the points, but here are some more thoughts:

I've no objections to second hand gear if it meets my specifications. Whether there will be second-hand rifle, scope or other bits available when I need them, I don't know, but if there are, I'll certainly buy them. That said, I have to be prepared to buy new if I can't get what I want and - being inexperienced - I have little chance of identifying the rifles whose barrels have been shot out if one of them is "pushed" toward me. Buying new avoids that issue.

Thank you to Brithunter for the discussion of reticles - much appreciated. I'll try to avoid the very "fine" crosshairs as he suggests.

Thank you to bewsher500 for the points he listed.

Thanks to DaveK for the suggestion for the scope - I'll investigate that lead.

 

[baguio]

Quake Claw Sling. Fantastic bit of kit. Totally non slip and for £25 ish it is the best value item of stalking kit that I have bought to date! I now can't believe that I have Wasted my money on leather ones in the past! There are few things more annoying than constantly hitching the sling back onto your shoulder. Thankfully those days are now a thing of the past!
Good luck with your search.
Baguio

 

[bewsher500]

and - being inexperienced - I have little chance of identifying the rifles whose barrels have been shot out

I have yet to see a properly shot out barrel in anything I have picked up privately or otherwise. Think there is a general fobia about 2nd hand rifles and in general the shot out ones look "shot out" from the outside too!!
Don't get me wrong I have picked up some real shockers, in fact one of the ones I bought was pitted to hell!! shoots like a dream!

unless you are shooting bench rest most people won't be able to say the accuracy of their rifles is off and be truly confident it wasn't them that pulled the shot an inch or couldn't replicate the 1/2" internet group in the field.

 

[XYZ]

I would also add that you need to consider whether or not you actually need a bipod. Don't get one just because everyone else seems to have one or you think it's a 'must have' accessory.
If sticks will suffice then just use them, they can be made for just a few pounds.
A bipod can add unnecessary weight and can often get in the way so if you don't need one, don't get one.

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

Adam,

Consider 30-06 over .308. Wider range of bullet weights for the future.

​Stan

+1 you say you want to shoot boar so the 30-06 would be a better option. As for the sling a quake is what you state that you want Ant supplies is the cheapest i have found for them. As also said go for a second hand Hungarian S&B scope far better than as said an air rifle scope. Bipod i would recomend Harris.

Kind regards Jimbo

 

[Mungo]

Most of the discussion has been about the scope so far (I would agree with the advice to avoid Hawke, by the way - though I wouldn't go so far as to say 'German or nothing' - Leupold and Bushnell are perfectly good enough).

I would hesitate to get a Remington, though. My experience of them has been dismal to say the least, and I will never use one again: rough machining, loose components and relatively poor shot consistency. They are the customiser's dream, but for a beginner who wants something accurate and worry free out of the box, I would strongly advice against them (they are like Landrovers: they have a passionately dedicated following who are prepared to put in the time and effort to make them work, but they're not for everyone).

Just about any of the European brands would be a better choice - and you can get some very good second hand onoes for surprisingly little.

 

[Brithunter]

Bewsher makes a fair point about shot out barrels. I have only really come across one and that was on a P-14 target rifle. Cordite 303 ammunition is hard on throats and the first 5" of the barrel was washed out by it's erosive action. I finally called it a day with that one when it would not hold the Bisley 200 yard bull at 100 yards and I needed the slot open for a much better condition 303 .

I bought a 1960's BSA Majestic Featherweight in 270 Win as a donor as it appeared to have a badly worn barrel on it. Got it cheap and always on getting it home stripped and cleaned it. What appeared to be a worn barrel was in fact one that was heavily fouled with jacket and powder fouling. A weekend spent deep cleaning it revealed a rather nice bore with good rifling. I have to wonder if the bore was ever cleaned before.

As the fouling is laid down in layers that's the way it had to come out, nitro solvent to remove the burnt carbon and powder residue then Forest Bore Foam to remove the jacket build up. I also half way through the weekend poured a kettle of boiling water through the bore then scrubbed it with P-H 009 Nitro solvent whilst it was still hot. This helps losen the fouling it seems and the cleaning when hot removed lot's of black carbon/powder fouling.

The P-H 1200C I bought the other year in 25-06 was also quite badly fouled and on cleaning it some shadows became visible in the throat. The rifle shoots well enough but did not produce the grouping that I have expected and after many test rounds arrangements were made with Steve Kershaw for him to bore scope it. He said the bore needed to be clean so a couple of days were spent cleaning and soaking the bore to remove the fouling build up. The bore scope revealed a few tiny traces of copper fouling left and Steve commented on this and said it had been cleaned well. We do not know the shot count on this used rifle but the bore scope also revealed heat cracking for about half the length of the bore so it appears about MOA is the best we can achieve with it. I have fired some 300 rounds through it in testing and load development though.

Now I should point out that I have owned some 70 odd rifles, of which only a handful were new or had new barrels on them, so finding a couple that are worn is not bad really. Let's face it those here with knowledge of 303 rifles will know that finding one with a worn bore is not that hard. However finding a truly washed out bore is harder even on these 303's than many would think.

Finding a sporting rifle with a shot out bore is much harder and one is much more likely to come across a pitted bore due to lack of care.

 

[Conor1]

It looks like you have done your research but your argument regarding the scope is flawed as others have pointed out. Most rifles will out shoot the person behind the trigger, especially in the case of a novice. I cut my teeth on a 308 and it was, is a doddle to shoot, at least my one is and I do not use a moderator. Seven or eight hundred pounds should get you a decent second hand gun leaving you four hundred and change for a decent scope. There is no point in having an accurate rifle if your target is invisible or barely visible. A glimpse through the Optics sale section here should allow you to pick up a decent S&B 6*42, 8*56 scope for your budget. Be under no illusion, Hawke scopes wil be fine for air rifles and .22lrs etc......they have no place on full bore guns.

 

[DaveK]

I would also add that you need to consider whether or not you actually need a bipod. Don't get one just because everyone else seems to have one or you think it's a 'must have' accessory.
If sticks will suffice then just use them, they can be made for just a few pounds.
A bipod can add unnecessary weight and can often get in the way so if you don't need one, don't get one.

Add to that - that once you get used to shooting with a bipod it's very easy to become reliant on it to the point that your muscle memory for shooting offhand or from sticks lessens.

Reason for post? I'm trying to wean myself off bipods and I find it difficult to shoot any other way in a lot of cases.

 

[bogtrotter]

Add to that - that once you get used to shooting with a bipod it's very easy to become reliant on it to the point that your muscle memory for shooting offhand or from sticks lessens.

Reason for post? I'm trying to wean myself off bipods and I find it difficult to shoot any other way in a lot of cases.

Oh so very true, unfortunately I have become addicted to them.

 

[Selous]

+1 on the quality scope. Spending £150 on a hawke scope really is throwing £150 away. Choosing a simpler 6x42 or 8x50 or 56 scope is a far better option and if you choose a zeiss, Swarovski or schmidt you will lose no money if you needed to sell the scope. better scopes tend to hold zero better and give a far clearer sight picture, it is not all willy waving, they are popular for good reasons. Trust me you won't believe the difference when you do a side by side comparison in poor light conditions.
Regarding rifles, it is a lottery whether you buy new or secondhand. I have had new Remingtons with duff barrels that would not shoot at all because the barrel was not chambered with care. Would I buy a remmie again, definitely yes I would, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that a new rifle will always outshoot a secondhand rifle. Out of the box I would look at the Tikka T3 as the most likely to be accurate but would prefer an older tikka 595 or Sako in good condition. Have a chat with Steve Beatty at Ivythorn, he has an excellent reputation and has facilities to try before you buy. I am almost certain that he could put a package together that would suit your budget

 

[Brithunter]

In my small collection I have some sporting books and more than one recommends that the new stalker spends the majority of their budget on the optics and the remaining change on the rifle. These books date for the 50' & 60's mainly.

In one the author after buying a new Mannlicher Schoenauer Stitzen had some troubles with his shooting performance which they eventually decided was caused by it's too short barrel. He swapped it for a Schoenauer rifle with a longer barrel and his "problem" went away. The Scottish stalker he was out with when he missed a beast pointed out that if the barrel was long enough to almost touch the beast there would never be a miss! .

There was nothing wrong with the Stutzen performance wise it's short barrel just did not suit this stalker others who tried it on the Iron Stag got good groups from it the owner just could not shoot it as well as a longer barrelled one. I should point out that the author was also still using iron sights and it's only towards the end of the book does he succumb to a scope purchase.

Whilst not every gunshop has a range on site where one can try out a rifle/scope combination any good gunshop should be able to fit you up with a suitable package for your budget. Just remember that not all good gunshops are stalking oriented .

 

[The Singing Stalker]

Well one thing to take. DON'T USE A HAWKE! I have used them and really, don't, just don't, seriously. What everybody says is true. There are loads of good second hand scopes. Meoptas are great, but that is my opinion. There are loads more out there. We all have an opinion. Just do some more research. But take the hint.
Quality
parallax
holding zero
white out
clarity
depth of field
point of impact not changing when you change the zoom.

All my scopes are secondhand, never had a problem, well I did once buy a new lower end scope, lost a lot of money on it when i sold it cos it wasn't very good.

my opinion is the HAWKE is ok for rimfire and airguns.

 

[Cernunnos]

Adam,

I'm embarking on the quest to equip myself with stalking gear too. I'm also looking at a .308 and like you, this is with a view to boar shooting in the future. I also have a kid arriving soon, so need a versatile rifle as I can't stretch to multiple firearms.

I'm veering towards a Sako 75/85 myself but have also looked at Howa which although a good bit cheaper, is still a pretty solid rifle.

I was aghast when I saw the price of European optics. However, my wife bought me a pair of 6 x 42 Zeiss Binos for my birthday and I used them for twilight stalking in Scotland two months ago. As has been mentioned on this thread, the quality of the glass, coatings and construction contribute to the quality of the light transmission and corresponding image. It's expensive initially but good quality optics do make a massive difference.

I'm going to buy a Zeiss or S&B 6 x 42 rifle scope for similar reasons. Also, a fixed power scope will be more affordable and with fewer moving parts be robust. I don't fully understand optics , but a 6 x 42 scope provides an exit pupil of 7mm which is pretty much ideally suited to the human eye, as I read it, since this corresponds to the average size of a dilated human adult pupil .

You can get a Czech Meopta Artemis 6 x 42 for £380. Good scopes by all accounts. The point which has been made about the quality of good 2nd hand equipment to inferior new equipment is valid. If you shop around you can find some good stuff. This place has a lot of used gear.

R. Macleod Son, Tain, Scotland

I'm actually in the process of cobbling a sling together myself. I'm using Uncle mike's sling swivels, stainless steel D rings, Elastomer shoulder pads and 50mm webbing. I'm trying to configure it to convert between a regular carry and backpack carry. Something to keep me occupied. My next project will be shooting sticks. Sorry for veering off topic slightly.

Anyway, I've realised that this is a highly personal sport and all the richer for it. No matter what you decide, good luck and congratulations on the imminent arrival of your baby.

Scott

 

[bishoplad]

Stay off the Hawke scope. It isn't good enough for a centre fire like a .308. The criteria has got to be a good clear image no matter the weather from first light to last light, no blurring and it must hold its zero .It can be dark in woodland during the day. There are many that will do it (see Monkey Spanker's reply ).Leupold are good and you could probably pick up a good 3 -9 X40 or 3.5-10 X 50 Vari X 3 very cheap. I woud pay more for the scope than the rifle. Your binos have got to be good too. You have to see the deer before they see you. Really the advice has got to be buy the best optics you can get. Dont be afraid to look on Ebay .com , the Americans have a lot of good stuff for sale.

 

[floyd]

Just had a quick scan through the thread, so apologies if this is repetition.

You don't seem to have factored in any means of cleaning said rifle.

IMO, you'll need a rod, brush, jag, patches and some form of solvent/foam. Easily adding another £40-50 to the budget.

Especially if buying new as the rifle will need 'shooting in', which is a process of shooting and cleaning, to condition the bore.

Good luck.