Despatching wounded animals hit by cars

funny as there are so many "scientific" studies which show the opposite!!

subjects are often anaesthetised (for ethical reasons!! says it all really!)


"The experiments showed that the calves would have been experiencing pain during the cut (Gibson et al, 2009 ab)."
http://www.grandin.com/ritual/slaughter.without.stunning.causes.pain.html



The scientific facts

A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.


The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.


The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.
 
We all know that a firearm is the best method for HD, but not always as readily available as a knife... Like the example in the OP

Forget the Halal argument for now, that's another discussion... for the purpose of dispatching an injured animal, if you turned up at the scene of a RTA with a hefty looking knife it looks better than telling everyone to "stand back, I know what I'm doing" as you brandish a claw hammer from the boot of your car.

"Dad what's he gonna do with that knife?"
"he's going to cut the poorly animals neck"

as opposed to;

"Dad why's that man got a hammer?"
"he's going to bash that deers head in with it"

Glad you say "Forget the halal argument for now", as I can find about as many studies and scientific papers online that would suggest that halal method of slaughter / dispatch is not humane.
I just couldn't be ar5ed posting it all, but its easy to find if anyone is interested !
The original post was about humane methods of dispatch for an injured animal (something that has been covered many times on this site) and to be honest the mention of halal should never have entered the discussion.
Im gonna stick with the professionals (vets) advice on this matter since Im not professionally qualified to comment on ruminants.
 
Recently I was in a situation where I came across a fallow which had been hit by a car and had it's back broken and would not survive and clearly was in incredible pain. I called the relevant authorities and they said it would be a few hours before a vet would be able to get there to humanely put it down, so if I felt comfortable in dispatching the beast, I could go ahead.

I had no weapons on me other than a hefty hunting knife, so my only option was to slit it's throat. It went well and the animal bled out quickly. Upon research into my method, it seems there are two schools of thought.

1) that my method was halal and the animal would have passed out within seconds and thus would have felt little pain.

2) that halal slaughter is ******** and the animal would not have passed out, thus leaving it in considerable pain. (Having said that, even those who say this agree that it was still more humane than leaving it suffering for hours until a vet (possibly) arrived to put it down.)

So, does anyone have any further thoughts on a) if halal slaughter is humane and thus the animal didnt feel too much or b) does anyone have a better way of despatching a wounded deer or other large animal (im thinking badger, boar, perhaps fox) without a firearm?

​Cheers, James


this is simple..jeez. 5 pages up to now!

a. if a gun is available, use it! shield the public from the 'act' if possible and be safe
b. if no gun is available but a knife is, stick it in the atlas joint if the knife blade allows, and it's safe to do so, otherwise consider throat.

yes, inform police, yes, despatch the animal quickly, ethically, and safety, no, do not take carcass with you, but yes, do move it out of the way, yes, inform the police of your intentions or your actions retrospectively in case anyone calls in a report with your license plate.

there should be nothing more to be said on the subject IMHO.
 
this is simple..jeez. 5 pages up to now!

a. if a gun is available, use it! shield the public from the 'act' if possible and be safe
b. if no gun is available but a knife is, stick it in the atlas joint if the knife blade allows, and it's safe to do so, otherwise consider throat.

yes, inform police, yes, despatch the animal quickly, ethically, and safety, no, do not take carcass with you, but yes, do move it out of the way, yes, inform the police of your intentions or your actions retrospectively in case anyone calls in a report with your license plate.

there should be nothing more to be said on the subject IMHO.

PKL, I now consider you as the voice of reason. Thank you for clear, rational information and advice. :tiphat:
 
PKL, I now consider you as the voice of reason. Thank you for clear, rational information and advice. :tiphat:

+1 what PKL and Apache have said thus far.

Really, it isn't complicated.

The only thing I would add is that, in my experience, .410 would definitely be my top choice, over and above rifle, provided the animal was immobile / I could get close enough. I use .410 on sheep and pigs (and occaisionally cattle) and it's instant. Far less risk of something going wrong (riccochet etc) than with rifle.
However, I don't always have a .410 in the car on the off chance. I do always have a pretty hefty knife about my person though, and wouldn't hesitate to use it to prevent further suffering.
 
While there has been more than enough said already on this, i would add be careful when using a tyre iron/hammer

There is a fine line between 1 swift killing blow (althou svert makes a lot of sense a stunning blow then bleed out) and giving it 1 or 2 more to make sure. It now looks like u've battered it to death. (must admit i often when killing a bird with a priest still give it an extra whack)

This was brought up when i done a snareing course, and it is very hard not to give an extra whack or 2 to make sure, yet wether or not the animal died on the fiirst blow u could be charged with causing animal suffering. I should add the context was anti's videoing ur snares or cage traps so looking for an excuse to prosecute u
 
It's been done since the beginning of time, since before Islam was even thought of and before guns were invented.
Would you as a bystander to an RTA rather see an animal have it's head smashed in with a tyre iron or a swift clean cut to the throat?

If I had something sufficiently solid I'd bash then bleed. A knife on its own would be very bottom of my list - I think I'd rather wait for someone better equipped than try and cut its head off (unless unconscious).

The argument 'done since the beginning of time' is immaterial. Times and attitudes change and it becomes apparent that old practices are cruel inhumane and then get banned.

Cock fighting, badger baiting, dolphins in captivity, tail docking pet dogs etc etc etc.
 
If I had something sufficiently solid I'd bash then bleed. A knife on its own would be very bottom of my list

Having thought about this some more, I agree.

A heavy ball-pein hammer, longish handled, would be my tool of choice, and not unlawful to have in the vehicle.

I'd then be confident to bleed the stunned creature with even my legal 3" penknife, though I usually have something much more suitable to hand, and could argue good reason.
 
Having used a ball-pein hammer a few times, I'd say it's not such a good choice as you might think.
The back of an axe to the back of the head is more effective I find, then use the knife to bleed. I've done quite a few young goats like that, and it's ok.
 
Realy can't believe what I am hearing.. Seriously? Bludgeoning an animal until its unconscious as aposed a fast cut to the caroitd arteries, jugular vains and wind pipe? Forget religious beliefs for a second but the said animal needs to be dispatched as quick as possible.. I'm quite shoked a qualified vet would insist on letting the animal further suffer until a more suitable tool was found? And also as a vet nice to see you pointed out the fact Ruminants have a vertebral artery but surely as the animals blood is under pressure when the carotids,jugular vains are severed there will be a huge drop in blood pressure causing rapid unconsciousness.. Would you not agree?
 

Whatever the "best"/quickest/most humane/scientifically proven to be kindest solution is, the only methods we should be practicing are contained in the links above.

We do absolutely nothing for our professional image wielding tyre spanners at the roadside!

Ensuring our actions follow legitimate guidelines means we can never be said to've done wrong.
 
I recently had a dispatch situation on the edge of the estate I manage in West Sussex. The pricket had been hit and it appeared to have a broken hip. A client and member off this site was with me at the time. The beast was dispatched with a shot to the back of the head, and into the ground on the edge of the wood. There was no one present and it was about 5.15am.

Dispatching a big buck that is still active is not for a knife, hammer or axe. The fact remains is each situation should be assessed before proceeding with dispatching the animal as humanley, cleanly and safely as possible. I would hate to try and see anyone bludgeoning a deer to death with a tyre wrench, hammer or axe, especially a really active but wounded deer, and possibly with an audience looking on.

A knife is the best method, or if the beast is really active a firearm if available. As I say much depends on the situation, time and who is present.
 
Whatever the "best"/quickest/most humane/scientifically proven to be kindest solution is, the only methods we should be practicing are contained in the links above. We do absolutely nothing for our professional image wielding tyre spanners at the roadside! Ensuring our actions follow legitimate guidelines means we can never be said to've done wrong.

Thanks for the quote, but I posted those links to keep the discussion simple. It has since moved on, with some erudite input.

Fact is it can be a messier business and improvisation may be necessary. Spade, hammer, wheelbrace etc.

Last year I reversed over a badger, carefully and precisely, to finish it. Was that wrong ?
 
Realy can't believe what I am hearing.. Seriously? Bludgeoning an animal until its unconscious as aposed a fast cut to the caroitd arteries, jugular vains and wind pipe? Forget religious beliefs for a second but the said animal needs to be dispatched as quick as possible.. I'm quite shoked a qualified vet would insist on letting the animal further suffer until a more suitable tool was found? And also as a vet nice to see you pointed out the fact Ruminants have a vertebral artery but surely as the animals blood is under pressure when the carotids,jugular vains are severed there will be a huge drop in blood pressure causing rapid unconsciousness.. Would you not agree?

I don't think that anyone was suggesting "bludgeoning until unconcious". Just a sharp blow to knock it out.
Holding a wild animal still while you cut its throat will cause a lot of stress. They don't like being handled. Therefore, unless it's already pretty far gone (in which case it's probably beyond suffering anyway) a clout to the back of the head will render it unconcious so you can do the cutting without further stress. In fact, in the case of smaller animals (goat kids, lambs, etc) the blow usually breaks its neck anyway, just like killing a rabbit by hand, in which case the bleeding is largely academic unless it's a carcass you're going to eat.
 
Realy can't believe what I am hearing.. Seriously? Bludgeoning an animal until its unconscious as aposed a fast cut to the caroitd arteries, jugular vains and wind pipe? Forget religious beliefs for a second but the said animal needs to be dispatched as quick as possible.. I'm quite shoked a qualified vet would insist on letting the animal further suffer until a more suitable tool was found? And also as a vet nice to see you pointed out the fact Ruminants have a vertebral artery but surely as the animals blood is under pressure when the carotids,jugular vains are severed there will be a huge drop in blood pressure causing rapid unconsciousness.. Would you not agree?

I'll stick with advice from the qualified vet. A,"Fast cut", does not always guarantee a rapid dispatch.
 
Thanks for the quote, but I posted those links to keep the discussion simple. It has since moved on, with some erudite input.

Fact is it can be a messier business and improvisation may be necessary. Spade, hammer, wheelbrace etc.

Last year I reversed over a badger, carefully and precisely, to finish it. Was that wrong ?

And the discussion should be simple too, the Best Practice Guidance is very clear afterall.

Improvisation should not be necessary if we're adaquately prepared with the right tools and knowledge. If we're not adaquately prepared, the job should be left to someone who is.

Your point about the badger is interesting and i've done similar when needed. The topic though is deer/vehicle collisions, for which guidance exists. We should be using it. If ever our actions should be called into question we have it behind us, with a spade, a hammer or a wheelbrace we're on our own.
 
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