Land Reform and it's Impact On Stalking and the countryside

[6pointer]

Taff that's bollox mate. My next door neighbour who now lives with his new woman in Wales was given a 2000 pound bill after he refused to keep his house in good order and his garden. PS it is his own house not rented and no one lives in it.

 

[Taff]

Really, well there are 635,000 empty recorded houses in England, with 216,000 of those being empty for 6mths or more, I know of 2 houses within 1/2 mile of my house one has been empty for at least 15 yrs the other for a unknown amount of time, neither is in the countryside.
Obviously his house, most probably his garden became a hazard to his neighbours.

 

[jimmy milnes]

Didn't this kinda thing happen in RSA? ? The locals/government took all the farms back from the supposed rich white farmers who had worked incredibly hard to manage the land, look at those same farms that were given/taken back by the locals now !!!
Regards
Jimmy

 

[private fraser]

Private Fraser, I know for a fact that this affected the level of commitment that 'foreign' companies made to the island, it also put off many individuals that were considering businesses in the tourist industry. It was one of the reasons for which I left the islands.

Amhuinnsuidhe, The thought about New Zealand also crossed my mind. Its probably the only place I would consider a move to at this time.

From what I have read of Quebec,the same sort of thing is/has happened there.
Companies have moved out rather than endure the uncertainty of a "neverendum".
They even have "language inspectors" who will intervene if they think French is being under represented in any way.

 

[countrryboy]

CB I am not positive but I think a landowner in the city would be brought to task if he left a building to fall in to disrepair and it be came un inhabitable. That's not the case in the country.

Not really sure wot ur pont is?

Are u actually saying that all land owners should be forced to keep ALL their building livable? Does this also apply to forestry companies that have bought land with old shepherds houses on?
I doubt many landowners want anything on there estate to fall into disrepair wether buildings, fences, fields drains, tracks etc but the simple fact is most landowners don't have the cash to keep everything up to stanard, most estates will be lucky to break even and thats without doing all this additional work. Wot value is there doing up an old herds bothy 10+ miles up a hill tack thats 4x4 only and often inaccesabile due to snow?
Quite often when u go into the 'big house' or actually speak to the house staff/tradesmen most are in a shocking state of disrepair apart from the rooms they use.

And when u go round some tennant farms there buildings fences are in really poor nick as thanks to the last land reform, many tennant farmers on a more modern short leases so have little incentive to spend any money and improve things.

Must admit i quite like going to some of these 'new money' estates/grouse moors where some mega rich city person is usuing it as his plaything, money is often no object the standard the houses are done up to is amazing and back to there former victorian era glory, the cash and work involved is massive. And u should see the toys/facilities the keepers have

End of the day things must be vaible unless wee eck can share his/snp money tree with the rest of us, if u own something it is not in ur intrest to let it go to rack and ruin but obviously land/property in a town/city is worth far more so more incentive to keep it habitable or lettable. Some butt and ben up the back of beyond is always going to be less vaible.

Some landowners are bloody murder getting money out off, will be worth a fortune on paper but have little cash to keep things going any family have been sent out to get 'real' city jobs as estates not paying anymore, and these are fairly good lowland est's

 

[David Brown]

As has been said before, the reason there are derelict buildings all over the highlands is not landowner neglect ,it is simple ecomomics. Crofts and small farms have been getting abandoned for centuries due to changes in agriculture. Subsistence farming is not attractive. In this high tax / high spend society we live in industry has to be more efficient and often that means bigger. Agriculture , as an industry , has not been immune to this. All the houses where my family lived for generations at the head of a big estate in Banffshire, are all ruined. My Grandmother praised God the day they were moved down the Glen to a house with an inside toilet, electricity and a wash house with running water (in summer anyway) . Seven houses were served by a pony track and they were cut off often by snow in the winter. I would dearly like to see a family used to modern life live up there. Anyway what would they do now? In my great grandfathers day the estate employed so many people they could have a football match on fete day! The estate was purely a Deer ,Grouse and Salmon fishing sporting estate. Even then it was wholly financed from money earned in the brewing trade in the south.

David

 

[Barkingsnake]

You're quite right, David, them days are gone and mostly for good reasons. Would people in this modern world want an outside bog, open fires where you got to gather fuel and rickets etc?

 

[6pointer]

Some are as you describe CB some are not some have had the water cut off and the toilet blocked so that they do not need to pay council tax.
May I add when I was young I lived in the city and we shared a bathroom and a toilet with every one in the block. With a bit of cash a lot of these places could be viable. If its not viable to the estate then sell it to a local most small cottages when they come up for sale at a realistic price get snapped up. Normally some foreign gentle man who wants his bit of Scotland would not dream of selling it to a Scotsman funny that don't you think.

I WAS TOLD NOT FOR SALE AT ANY PRICE AN EMPTY HOUSE IN NEED OF TLC. 25 MTR FROM A ROAD.

 

[Mick9abf]

Some are as you describe CB some are not some have had the water cut off and the toilet blocked so that they do not need to pay council tax.
May I add when I was young I lived in the city and we shared a bathroom and a toilet with every one in the block. With a bit of cash a lot of these places could be viable. If its not viable to the estate then sell it to a local most small cottages when they come up for sale at a realistic price get snapped up. Normally some foreign gentle man who wants his bit of Scotland would not dream of selling it to a Scotsman funny that don't you think.

I WAS TOLD NOT FOR SALE AT ANY PRICE AN EMPTY HOUSE IN NEED OF TLC. 25 MTR FROM A ROAD.

Just because a land or property owner (nationality unimportant really), doesn't want to sell something, hardly means it's right for a government to invoke a compulsory purchase or similar scheme to simply fit in with an emotive item in it's manifesto.

 

[NewForester]

Just because a land or property owner (nationality unimportant really), doesn't want to sell something, hardly means it's right for a government to invoke a compulsory purchase or similar scheme to simply fit in with an emotive item in it's manifesto.

+1

 

[rodp]

well it's done, or at least they're going to do it, in England so what's the difference. Supposed to be use it or lose it with empty housing now.

Don't know of anyone personally that's had it done though.

 

[countrryboy]

6P the vast majoity of these house ill not be on mains water and be on sepctic tanks so shutting water of and blocking bog won't make any difference.

Why should they be forced to sell something just because someone else wants it? There might be a history/story behind that propery or if/when they have spare cash they will do it up themselves. If i came past ur house and wanted to buy some of ur garden as i didnae think u were using it to its full potential, would u sell it?

To go back to urban 'landowners' ie landlords how would u like it if any of ur tennents could insist u sell them the flat/house at a knock'd down price? Yet that is exactly wot the last round of land reforms done, so now tennant farms are on short unsecured leases. Havenae helped anyone, infact made it harder for both landowners and the tennants

So the next time u put some thing up for sale woud u accept the highest offer or just the offer from the person nearest u no matter wot it is?
Generally any of these places it will be a 'setteler' that buys it as there the only folk that can afford to do it up as not reliant on the crap local wages to buy and fix it up and crap transport links etc. Where are all these folk going to get work? Esp when the largest employer has been stripped bare and given to the 'people'
Wot's to stop the local then selling it to a 'setteller' at a later date to make some money (know i probably would)

I've been lucky enough to work on a lot of different estates doing different things and generally speaking all the estates that rely purely on the estate for income are screwed and falling apart no matter how large, yet similar sized estates bought as a plaything with income coming from elsewhere are employing loads of staff and spending money like its going out of fashion, dare say some kind of tax dodge, but it is bringing money/work into rural areas creating work. That will not happen when we all own a share

I know of 1 old herds cottage used to have to travel miles over the hill and farmer used it as a hay store, a famous tv personailty bought built a brand new road of the hill from the other side will have cost an absolute fortune for a 2 bed house. No one else could afford to do that.

 

[Pointer]

Near me there is a large estate teeming with wildlife, ducks, geese and every British deer except CWD. It is quiet, beautiful, free of rubbish (even on the footpaths) and I do not care that a rich man owns it. It is an island for nature. Next to it there is an equally large National Trust property, heaving with thousands of people, littered with rubbish and devoid of the wildlife. The large estates should be left alone as the islands of sanity in this over populated island of ours.

 

[Barkingsnake]

Just because a land or property owner (nationality unimportant really), doesn't want to sell something, hardly means it's right for a government to invoke a compulsory purchase or similar scheme to simply fit in with an emotive item in it's manifesto.

+1
And, at least in Europe, I hope it'll be proved illegal, if it goes ahead.

 

[private fraser]

I listened to "the big debate" on radio Scotland today at lunchtime.

When it came to the subject of land reform, the level of "debate" was depressingly low. The audience actually jeered when just the very word word stalker was mentioned and cheered when the breaking up of estates was mentioned. They positively hooted when a panel member said it was like a Mugabe style land grab.

As someone on the panel commented, it was largely an urban audience. It was difficult for him to say much though as he was a representative of a land owners association and was quite shamelessly interrupted and talked over. The "debate" wasn't well run at all. I wonder what a more country region audience would have said.

The subject of land being divided into smaller and smaller plots was raised but the member to which the question was addressed said he "preferred to address the question of the big estates not paying business tax", and therefore completely avoided the issue. He was cheered by the audience, or at least some members of it. That same panel member was still bitter about the referendum result and made some quite nasty comments.

Pretty depressing stuff. I can only hope folk in the country regions of Scotland can have their say.

This is now available on iplayer.
Worth listening to
Move the slider at the bottom until 38.30 comes up.

BBC Radio Scotland - The Big Debate, 05/12/2014

 

[6pointer]

Extremely interesting PF and there are a few passionate people around not sure what will happen but I was told by an estate owner today that if there had been a business tax on the whole estate he would never have bought it. He is very worried about the consequences of the governments future actions will be. I said to MIGHT his reply was they will now need to do something and even a compromise might but many estates at braking point

 

[private fraser]

Power to the people ?

 

[gerarddwatts]

Extremely interesting PF and there are a few passionate people around not sure what will happen but I was told by an estate owner today that if there had been a business tax on the whole estate he would never have bought it. He is very worried about the consequences of the governments future actions will be. I said to MIGHT his reply was they will now need to do something and even a compromise might but many estates at braking point

But only a couple of days ago you said this;

I think the big problem is SNP are Scottish and they want the best for Scottish people (Not British) Should we see land reform yes and as soon as possible. 762 Scot there are many many local people in the highlands that could use the land that is at the moment lying barren and the dwellings that are falling apart could be used buy the sons and grandsons of local keepers deer manager fishermen and all sorts who live in these remote places. Instead many need to move away to find employment and housing at a cost they can afford. This is not about dragging some townie out of the city and sticking him on the hill.

You appear not to see that without investment there won't be any keepers sons grandsons etc living in remote places. These proposed land reforms will assuredly drive away investment, not encourage it. Muddled thinking?

 

[6pointer]

gerarddwatts I did listen to him and I did sympathise because he bought some thing that might change. But that's were it end,s he is not short of a few quid and could by me 10.000 times over so why should he get away with out paying business tax while we pay it. Land reform could be a great thing if used correctly. Peter did not agree as he drove away in his Aston leaving behind his RR because he was in a hurry. Now good luck to the chap but pay your way is what I say.

 

[gerarddwatts]

gerarddwatts I did listen to him and I did sympathise because he bought some thing that might change. But that's were it end,s he is not short of a few quid and could by me 10.000 times over so why should he get away with out paying business tax while we pay it. Land reform could be a great thing if used correctly. Peter did not agree as he drove away in his Aston leaving behind his RR because he was in a hurry. Now good luck to the chap but pay your way is what I say.

Quite agree. So the redistribution of land should only be to those that pay their way?? Or give it to them, like they did on Gigha....where the 'locals' raised the princely sum of 250 quid to fund the buyout...the rest coming from the public purse, which is not magic money, it comes from me. So I'VE got to pay THEIR way?? Just to further the SNP, and it would seem yours, trotskyite views on land ownership? Sad to say but the SNP and you, just don't understand the need for investment from outside to fund all these people living in remote areas. What is your plan? Give them all a bit of land and build a house for them out of public funds so they can grow a few oats, tatties with a coo and some hens? Grow up man.