Are you a Deer Stalker or a killer?

[willie_gunn]

WG I have to agree on public knowledge of where food comes from, we had a news film crew in today, who did not want to film lambs being born, as it could upset some people.

That sort of attitude really annoys me. Normally they mention that it might "traumatise children" whereas my experience is that children like nothing more than seeing exactly where food comes from.

We are in danger of ending up with a population that won't be able to prepare food unless it comes "boil in the bag"

 

[rick6point5]

WG I have to agree on public knowledge of where food comes from, we had a news film crew in today, who did not want to film lambs being born, as it could upset some people.

That is a sign of the times, shame they are not so fragile when it comes to reporting humanitarian issues

 

[rick6point5]

My daughter & her friends become mesmerized by anything to do with birth or death in the animal world, and are quite happy to get hands on to the point where I have to interject, like all these things if they are brought up with it and have parents or mentors that offer explanation then it is accepted as 'the way it is and should be'

 

[Taff]

The birth was watched by members of the public, we are offering counselling.

 

[rick6point5]

The birth was watched by members of the public, we are offering counselling.

I see the future right there..

Was going to visit SCP with my daughter in the morning, to see the little ones.

 

[Taff]

Say your coming to visit me and they will let you in.

 

[rick6point5]

Ideal, will do..

 

[JH83]

In response to the question; could be either, depends on where I am. I have some private land which I stalk sympathetically and lightly whenever I want, no pressure from landowners. I go to other areas where a cull is expected to be met, as long as it is legal and ethical. I use decent kit, I prefer to be as close as possible -then ten yards closer -but don't mind shooting further out if that's not possible. I imagine most fall into a similar bracket. I refuse to handicap myself by using inferior kit, I will use anything that helps me place a good bullet, but try not to weigh myself down with the entire Bushwear catalog!!!

 

[bogtrotter]

We pretty much seem to have a generation thats already there.

 

[Neumo]

We are in danger of ending up with a population that won't be able to prepare food unless it comes "boil in the bag"

Too right. The number of people that can not cook is going up all the time. If you can not cook then you don't handle meat so that vital step between 'fluffy little creatures' and your dinner is removed. I have had relatives have a go at me doing the 'How can you hunt living creatures...' while waving a piece of battery farm chicken on a fork at me, blissfully ignorant of the irony.

 

[MARCBO]

Marcbo I'm new to stalking/hunting can you tell me why in the us do you use orange jackets when out shooting, is it so you do not shoot yourself instead of the animals you are after

LOL, yes I guess you are.

SS

 

[Hereford]

Getting in close is what I call hunting - getting downwind quietly and closing your quarry down - the fieldcraft bit is the most satisfying for me regardless of what kit you're carrying...

 

[mchughcb]

For sambar hunting it is an extremely hard to hunt deer. Most stalkers here are very, very specific about the areas that they hunt. If area has not be burnt by bushfires then the terrain will offer the opportunity to see about 100 yards. If the wind is right and if its damp underfoot so you don't make too much noise and if the light conditions are right then you have a chance (without a gun dog). However with vast sections of forest burnt out by fire the regrowth is so thick you can't see more than 10feet in front of you. Having sat high in tree stands observing deer pushing through regrowth I can tell you than can hear you 100m ahead as you push through. So the chances of actually stalking a deer in regrowth are about zero. The only way to successfully hunt legally is with hounds, or off a stand. Or you leave the areas that are only 1 hours drive to hunt areas that are several hours drive and spend more time driving and less time hunting.

This moves to the next type of hunting. If you go to much higher elevations then you can see deer grazing on open areas on the next mountain peak with zero chance to stalk them. This is where people have migrated to using magnum calibres and high magnification scopes. Because the chances of stalking on a face that is a 75 degrees on thick forest only occasionally punctured by small open areas is about zero.

So I consider myself a "stalker", a "houndsman", a treestand hunter and a deer killer depending on what type of terrain I have to hunt. If you can only hunt one method you will have zero chance of success stalking when you hunt outside the conditions suitable for stalking which where I hunt are quite narrow by definition.


As an aside, sambar are a woodland deer similar to whitetail in that respect. From what I've read, until the invention of lightweight portable mobile treestands in the early seventies the main method for hunting whitetail was with hounds. The use of treestand revolutionised hunting because it was almost impossible to stalk them. Our regrowth is pretty thick bordering on regrowth I've seen in south American jungles. Dogs are used for hunting in many cultures otherwise its almost impossible to hunt many animals. I have hunted in moose in Sweden and won't be too many people who can stalk a moose in an artic pine forest. They either are using elkhounds or treestands.

 

[pricedo]

I see a lot a traffic here about high value guns with higher value scopes being shot off of some form of artifical rest, bipod etc. I propose that those using such are not stalkers but rather shooters. A friend of mine who is a professional forester there in the Uk described hiself as a deer killer, not a stalker. I think these folks with their "sniper" set-ups are also "Deer killers", not stalkers. We are no longer subsistance hunters and in my mind are not true sportsmen unless we are shooting off our elbows or at most using a leather sling. Any moron with hi-tech equipment can shoot deer fron long ranges but they are certainly not stalkers.

SS

Whether you're using a snipers rifle with a state of the art scope or a baseball bat and a head of lettuce to hunt deer who cares as long as the kill is swift, clean and legal.
Different strokes for different folks.

 

[mchughcb]

I think there were a series of events that led me to start considering the difference between a stalker/hunter and a sniper. One of the first was the ever increasing technology on the hunt with more rifles looking closer the WA2000 than the HahnKippLaufbuchse. I have never heard someone say "There I was slipping true the trees with my trusty WA2000..." Sure it could be used for a hunt but neer for a real "stalk".

SS

Well here you go. Stalking with my kipplaufbusche, plus a double and a tripple. Expensive yes. More effective - debatable. Certainly the single shot is lighter and the drilling is heavier than your standard Remington VTR. Do I have fun? Absolutely.

 

[mchughcb]

Whether you're using a snipers rifle with a state of the art scope or a baseball bat and a head of lettuce to hunt deer who cares as long as the kill is swift, clean and legal.
Different strokes for different folks.

This really sums up this thread, combination of technology and a good clean kill!

Problem is the old values are crumbling.

 

[swarovski]

I see a lot a traffic here about high value guns with higher value scopes being shot off of some form of artifical rest, bipod etc. I propose that those using such are not stalkers but rather shooters. A friend of mine who is a professional forester there in the Uk described hiself as a deer killer, not a stalker. I think these folks with their "sniper" set-ups are also "Deer killers", not stalkers. We are no longer subsistance hunters and in my mind are not true sportsmen unless we are shooting off our elbows or at most using a leather sling. Any moron with hi-tech equipment can shoot deer fron long ranges but they are certainly not stalkers.

SS

a rifle is hi tec innit, try using a bow and arrow or a spear instead then

 

[turkeyhunter]

Yawn!!!! Why not bring bow hunting into the discussion...... At least that way it'll get closed quicker......

Guess you can close it now.

One could say the difference is in the mindset, the more primitive the gear, the more you rely on understanding the quarry, the terrain, the wind, etc. If you have the luxury of 300 yard or farther killing ability, does that compensate for a lack of hunting knowledge?

I'm a bowhunter, hunt from a tree stand most of the time, still hunt the rest of the time, never over bait. Longest shot I've ever taken was 30 yards. Recovered EVERY deer I have hit, most within a few dozen yards. Have the best gear I can afford including some high tech gadgets. I spend most of my weekends scouting the public land I hunt, I know where and when they eat, sleep, drink, and walk. All that said, I'm not much of a stalker as they have to come to me and my hunts only pay off once or twice a year. I consider myself a hunter because it's not what I carry into the woods on my back, it's what carry in my head. I get you don't (won't) understand bowhunting, it's ok, I don't get baked beans for breakfast, cricket, or warm beer.

 

[ejg]

Stalking is one of the techniques used to kill. Killing is one technique used to control deer numbers....simple.
The best is to annoy deer least when going about culling and death should be quick. No fancy small calibres just to avoid a bruise on the shooters shoulder, no fancy chasing deer around for hours trying to get a hasty 50yd shot somewhere into the front of a deer, no pot shots at 500yds either.
BTW, I understand the word "stalking" as being more weighted towards the stalker having fun at what he is doing rather than weighted on a quick clean kill.
edi

 

[mchughcb]

Guess you can close it now.

One could say the difference is in the mindset, the more primitive the gear, the more you rely on understanding the quarry, the terrain, the wind, etc. If you have the luxury of 300 yard or farther killing ability, does that compensate for a lack of hunting knowledge?

I'm a bowhunter, hunt from a tree stand most of the time, still hunt the rest of the time, never over bait. Longest shot I've ever taken was 30 yards. Recovered EVERY deer I have hit, most within a few dozen yards. Have the best gear I can afford including some high tech gadgets. I spend most of my weekends scouting the public land I hunt, I know where and when they eat, sleep, drink, and walk. All that said, I'm not much of a stalker as they have to come to me and my hunts only pay off once or twice a year. I consider myself a hunter because it's not what I carry into the woods on my back, it's what carry in my head. I get you don't (won't) understand bowhunting, it's ok, I don't get baked beans for breakfast, cricket, or warm beer.

Don't be too down on yourself. I have friends who are great stalkers but couldn't hunt out of a stand to save their life. No patience.