Yes, but the promises will become even more utopian & less utilitarian with compulsory voting.
Sharkey
Compulsory Voting ?
- Thread starter Yoda
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Yes, but the promises will become even more utopian & less utilitarian with compulsory voting.
Sharkey
caorach
Well-Known Member
I think that the considerable proportion who choose not to vote send an important message about the current political circus and the political elite are extremely worried about disengagement with the process that lines their pockets, builds their duck islands and gets their moats cleaned out.
There are lots of people in favour of compulsory voting because people died for our freedom and they seem not to see the contradiction in this position - I'm free to vote or not and they are free to stick their opinions where they want but to force people to vote would be to reduce freedom not increase it. Freedom is about having free and informed choice.
When Stalin was elected, and he murdered up to (exact figures are a little vague) 65 million people during his time in power, he was able to claim that he was elected in the most free and democratic election ever as everyone had to vote for him. Even if there was no other candidate but the people could have chosen not to vote then this would have contained an important message. The fact that more people here in the UK (usually) don't vote than vote for the winning party sends an important message.
There are lots of people in favour of compulsory voting because people died for our freedom and they seem not to see the contradiction in this position - I'm free to vote or not and they are free to stick their opinions where they want but to force people to vote would be to reduce freedom not increase it. Freedom is about having free and informed choice.
When Stalin was elected, and he murdered up to (exact figures are a little vague) 65 million people during his time in power, he was able to claim that he was elected in the most free and democratic election ever as everyone had to vote for him. Even if there was no other candidate but the people could have chosen not to vote then this would have contained an important message. The fact that more people here in the UK (usually) don't vote than vote for the winning party sends an important message.
Sauer90
Well-Known Member
There ya go, someone who understands the UK system. I refuse to vote, it has never made any difference in the past and will not make any difference in the future.
I'm sick of lying career politicians, they only care about how deep they get the snout in the trough.
What a system ?
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
I've always been in favour of the Australian system ... you still have freedom of choice where to put your mark.
Not voting in protest, or what's even more pointless deliberately spoiling your ballot paper doesn't achieve a thing. It's not the behaviour of an adult, and by definition can send no message.
Clowns like Russell Brand who advocate these tactics should be banged up for sedition. I don't care how many Twitter followers he has, but his notoriety only makes him more culpable so it would have to be the death penalty for him.
If you don't engage with the system you don't have a stake in it, so are a waste of space as a citizen. That's my feeling, and I just can't be bothered with anybody who feels this is any kind of answer.
[QUOTE=merlin;
If you don't vote, don't then moan about the 'state of the country'. (Potential) voter apathy genuinely surprises me. Is it REALLY that much trouble to put an "X" into a box, or are individuals SOOOOO disinterested and disengaged with what actually affects their day-to-day /QUOTE
No it's not a case of disinterest it's a case of lack of trust in any of them , not one that I agree with all their policies
so my vote would not be for who I would like to win but rather to stop those that I would not from being in power.
Oh and I did vote.
If you don't vote, don't then moan about the 'state of the country'. (Potential) voter apathy genuinely surprises me. Is it REALLY that much trouble to put an "X" into a box, or are individuals SOOOOO disinterested and disengaged with what actually affects their day-to-day /QUOTE
No it's not a case of disinterest it's a case of lack of trust in any of them , not one that I agree with all their policies
so my vote would not be for who I would like to win but rather to stop those that I would not from being in power.
Oh and I did vote.
caorach
Well-Known Member
This has always been the position of the political elite, who earn their living from the current political system. It is often voiced as "if you don't vote then you can't complain about the government."
The truth of the matter is that somewhere between 30% and 40% of people who can vote don't vote depending on the year and so on, say about 1 in 3 of the people you meet in very day life. What gives you the right to declare 1 in 3 of the people you encounter a waste of space? I would say that to declare any individual who is expressing their free right to do what they wish a "waste of space" just because their free right differs from you is at the furthermost end of extremism.
The other side of this coin is that, if the current long term declining trend in voting continues, then we may find ourselves in a position where the majority chose not to vote. At that point it will probably be necessary to have some sort of reform of the democratic system in the UK and the politicians are only too aware of this, and are more than a little concerned about the implications. How might you feel if it was decided that those who did vote for a, clearly, flawed system were a waste of space and, therefore, had no right to have any input into the design of the new system? The logic is the same as yours, and equally flawed, extremist, selfish, self centred, narrow minded and exclusive.
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
And don't forget, of those who did vote, I wonder how many of them actually put any valid thought into why they were voting the way they did? Surely a vote without thought is worse than an outright refusal to buy into a system in which you have no faith? Which is the more hypocritical? 
caorach
Well-Known Member
I recently heard several people in Scotland, in the run up to the referendum, tell me the same thing - "I'm with the SNP because I don't want anything to do with those racists in UKIP who are so popular down south. And another thing, the SNP will get all those English people out of my country..."
There's a well considered position if ever I've seen one
NewForester
Well-Known Member
I recently heard several people in Scotland, in the run up to the referendum, tell me the same thing - "I'm with the SNP because I don't want anything to do with those racists in UKIP who are so popular down south. And another thing, the SNP will get all those English people out of my country..."
There's a well considered position if ever I've seen one
On a similar vein, I was asked in the office who I was going to vote for and I said that I probably wouldn't vote at all. I couldn't believe the barrage that I then received.
One person suggested that I shouldn't be allowed to live here if I didn't vote and take part as a citizen. Later this same person said that he wasn't in favour of a referendum on Europe because this was too important a decision to be left to the public! Umm!
Wapinschaw
Well-Known Member
"As a Scot seriously disillusioned with Westminster politics (or to be accurate, disillusioned with the self-serving liars, cheats, thieves and criminals that choose career politician as their path, and Westminster as their chosen crime scene)"
I think many of us share that view, which I believe also applies to the bunch of self-serving liars, cheats, thieves and criminals that choose career politics at Holyrood.
Re the referendum on Europe.
As I understand it, it will be a UK vote, not an individual country vote as in Scotland England Wales N.I. vote.
Yet the SNP insist on saying "if THE TORIES drag us out of Europe against our will, that should trigger another referendum.
Nice try tricky Nicky but how do you know what we want?...ah, of course, you'll be Telling us what we want.
No change there then.
As I understand it, it will be a UK vote, not an individual country vote as in Scotland England Wales N.I. vote.
Yet the SNP insist on saying "if THE TORIES drag us out of Europe against our will, that should trigger another referendum.
Nice try tricky Nicky but how do you know what we want?...ah, of course, you'll be Telling us what we want.
No change there then.
wildfowler1
Well-Known Member
Green's?? Wf1
caorach
Well-Known Member
Ah, the old "other people are too stupid to safely make up their own minds" argument. This is usually followed with "they should be made to do the following, which is what I think, whether they like it or not..."
norma 308
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't give em a bacon sandwich on shoot day mate let alone the drips from my nose on a frosty morning
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