Really just feedback from club secretaries and membership folks at the clubs I shoot at.
Lead update.
- Thread starter gixer1
- Start date
Really just feedback from club secretaries and membership folks at the clubs I shoot at.
I see that BASC is putting £40,000 into to a fund to help catching poachers. Now, I know that's a problem but that money would have been far better spent ( at this point in time) getting more actual meaning full research,evidence into the lead ban!!!
Pretty sure any poachers are not " concerned " about the lead ban!
The way things are going, the poachers will be the only ones shooting!!!
Pretty sure any poachers are not " concerned " about the lead ban!
The way things are going, the poachers will be the only ones shooting!!!
Of course they want to go further and have a full ban. They want the full extinction of shooting. This is why they're going after lead ammunition, releasing game birds (but oddly not the illegal release of other species by their fellow travellers), private ownership of land, farming and so on.
Bill.Stickers
Active Member
Who is 'they' ? If there was really any energy to ban shooting completely don't you think the Government (for it could only be them) could just do it ? Fear of the unknown and conspiracies abound. The government has it's hands full dealing with the dreadful mess this benighted country is in, 'banning' shooting is a long way down any possible agenda.
The HSE report is recommendations, the civil service mandarins haven't published any plan to do something with it as yet
Yes, the country is in a mess ,but I bet this subject is not that far down the government's list of things to do. Government's love to make themselves " busy" by doing stuff rather than stuff that makes the country safe and productive. Just look at the scottish government record on things!
Well yes, and thanks for the patronising tone - as ever. I have no doubt that is their motive.
What isn’t clear is whether that demand is being made now. It seems plausible that they could choose to ‘bag’ the current restrictions by pressuring the Government to adopt the HSE recommendations without delay before coming back, perhaps in a few years, to argue that, the toxicity of lead to the environment having been ‘established’ it’s only proper they turn the partial ban into a full one.
The tone of the Leigh Day letter is that they’re going to simply push the Government to do as the HSE suggest. That said, it could be an attempt to get the Government to commit to that early on, so they then know they can focus their energies on extending the ban.
The Wild Justice website doesn’t give much away either. By contrast, the WWT release suggests they’re going to push for a ‘full’ ban.
The question posed is whether BASC knows, or has seen, anything that might elaborate on this.
indeed we are an easy target, makes the news, looks good for the government, where as tackling say knife crime is virtually impossible, or the small boat crossings.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Theres tons of evidence from the USA, there they rely on shooter $’s for their income so they’re motivated to find out why it’s dropping off.
Up to 18- 20 kids are reliant on their parents and their parents take them out and subsidise their their shooting.
Once they leave college the real world kicks in hard, they need to start paying bills, building careers and relationships, buying houses and cars and just when they’ve got that sorted they get kicked back to the poverty line once they start having kids.
When that happens, your disposable income vanishes down the same plughole as your free time.
Then theres the sad fact that most of us make our living in an urban environment, there just aren’t a lot of 6 figure salaries to be had around rural areas. You can commute to work on public transport, but you need a car to go shooting.
Shooting itself of any kind is expensive or you need contacts, please dont go telling me that you get all your shooting for free, if you do you’re exceptionally lucky, or you own your own land. Frankly, free shooting is not available to most of us.
For most of us it’s expensive, hard to come by, and if you can’t take it, theres a long list of others who will.
Its a crowded land, and the guy with the cash wins every time.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Based on what has been published the WWT is spearheading a campaign for a full ban on lead ammunition within 18 months in England. Updates will follow on this in due course.
Thanks and that is quite concerning given the particularly serious consequences for rimfire, airgun and target shooting that would follow from a complete ban.
how come the WWT think the HSE or Government will listen to their campaign after the HSE has completed its work and published its proposal document? If campaigning can yet make changes to the proposal why are the shooting organisations not doing so to keep lead shot for clay shooting and small gauge guns and muzzle loaders.
There's been lots of mentions on various forums that 28 bores, 410s and muzzle loaders should be exempt from any lead shot ban.
Anyone know what this represent id the number of folk involved? For example what proportion of cartridge sales are 28 bore and 410 and whats the membership of the MLAGB?
Anyone know what this represent id the number of folk involved? For example what proportion of cartridge sales are 28 bore and 410 and whats the membership of the MLAGB?
No idea but I can say that I have a 28b, it’s a brilliant bit of kit but I do worry for its future.
If it was exempted (which I really doubt it will be) I’d quite happily use it for all but the most demanding shooting. That, in a nutshell, is why it won’t happen!
If it was exempted (which I really doubt it will be) I’d quite happily use it for all but the most demanding shooting. That, in a nutshell, is why it won’t happen!
I have one in semi auto also. They are also very useful for introducing young people into the sport at clay grounds, where a 12ga or even a 20gauge would be too much gun for them.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
I'm not a member but own and hunt with four muzzleloaders...not all at the same time mind....
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
WWT et al. are late to the party with this campaign as the three year HSE review is closed. Responses from people that shoot made up the majority of the 11,000 submissions the HSE received over the last 3 years and that is reflected in many of the recommendations the HSE has submitted to government.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
That’s interesting, in what way specifically were the HSE calls for restrictions on ammunition containing lead reflective of the submissions by shooters to the consultation? Were shooters really calling for more restrictions?
And steel isn't going to be a lot of use in my Norica 3 shot bolt action with mod that I recently purchased as a quiet pest control gun. For use with subsonic cartridges. Only option to load my own with Bismuth.link to the .410, but at $34 or £27 a box of 25 thats £1,080 per 1000 for steel shot in single use plastic wads.
may as well use Bismuth with a fibre wad.
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Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
The initial HSE proposals consulted on in 2022 were mirrored on the European Chemicals Agency proposals to ban the outdoor recreational use of lead ammunition use in the EU. Thanks to several thousand shooters, including some PW members, that took the time to engage in the 2022 and 2023 consultations, the HSE has dropped some of the restriction proposals in its recommendations to the government as follows:
- Restrictions on lead airgun pellets for live quarry and target shooting have been dropped.
- Restrictions on small calibre rifle ammunition below .243 for live quarry have been dropped.
- Restrictions on the use of rifle ammunition for target shooting on ranges have been dropped - so long as the range can follow best practice on de-leading, which 95% already can.
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