Digital v’s glass

There is very little place in my view for digital and novice stalkers.

A novice stalker needs to learn how to find deer, accurately observe deer and shoot them quickly and humanely.

The best tool for the job is the mark one eyeball supported by decent binoculars and a simple rifle scope with minimum of bells and whistles.

Digital optics provide a much worse image compared to a decent optical scope. If you need night time vision, then a sub £100 led torch will give you all the light you need.

Digital optics are a tool for expert and professional stalkers who really know their land well and have specific deer management problems to deal with.

For large culls needed in peri urban areas by far the best method is an organised driven style hunt with many rifles out on one day all on platforms / highseats with clearly defined arcs of fire into safe zones.

Given such culls will achieve a large proportion of the deer management required they only need two or three times a year at most and the area can be shut off ti the general public during those times.

As for general publics view on this - well that is a matter of education on why deer need to be managed.

All this sneaking around at night time picking off a few deer at a time achieves is driving the deer into safe areas such as gardens etc where they cause further problems and bloody hard work and trips to A&E with broken ankles and cuts from trying to recover deer in the middle of the night when knackered.
 
Mungo said:
So: spend £1500 plus on a glass optic that lasts the rest of your life? Or spend £2000 plus on electronics that you're going to have to treat as a consumable?

This sums it up well for me. I’ve had a lot of fun with digital — it’s great that if I head out at dusk I don’t have to swap anything over when the light goes, and there’s a bit of a “gadget/game” feel to it that I enjoy. But good glass is an entirely different thing: it holds its value and you can treat it as a lifetime buy, whereas the digital will likely be a piece of junk a few years down the line.
I still slightly prefer the digital, I’ll admit, but it’s a different experience and I’m happy using both. One thing though — I don’t like looking through thermal scopes, so I keep my thermal as a monocular just for spotting and leave the rifle topped with the digital.
 
I think there might be a market for “high horses”. I will have a look at a few of the stables around here and see if there is any for sale. :lol:

Anyhow, I am fully digital, and not planning to go back. It suits me. I was out looking for squirrels the other evening, too cold for them and me, tripping over deer, typical. I was using my old thermal, really missed my Habrooks, where I can go from thermal to bino to look.

Interesting the different opinions from people on here about culls. Being paid or not.

I have a number of grounds that I look after, a mix of private land and farmed. The owners all say the same, shoot the deer.
If I don’t, then, they will likely get someone else in. So whilst there is no (for me) cull figure, the owners want to hear that I am knocking them over.
And I do not knock over the numbers that some do. I expect about 30 deer this year, and they will be hard fought.
One of the points rightly raised earlier, it is hard to get land down here, and you have to get out and be seen to be about and removing deer, to keep it. Hobby or not.
Oh, and when I do go out, I want to shoot a deer, I would like to get back the money I invested in converting my garage over to butchery. :)
 
Do you shoot lowland reds?

Don’t get me wrong if my land owner has put the hand in their pocket and met me halfway to what it costs with time investment in kit etc then by all means I’ll get a digital scope and I’ll **** them at last night and in the early evening into the dark.

But if there’s no pound notes involved, why should I lose? My beauty sleep?

You shoot 100 kg red male or female in the last light/dark you are in for a world of pain, particularly if you are a good distance away from your vehicle!

Been there done it got the T-shirt not ****ing worth it!

Smaller deer money for old rope quick and easy to bust up easy extra money that I don’t disagree, but again I’ll be buggered it I’ll do it!

But still I won’t shoot them beyond last night with my scope. I made a promise to the man who first granted me the land for my FAC and I promised him back then 20 oddyears ago that I would never shoot a deer in the dark and I stand by my word I’m simply not that desperate
 
Oh, and when I do go out, I want to shoot a deer, I would like to get back the money I invested in converting my garage over to butchery. :)
yep and that sums it up completely £££££, where personally ££££ has never come into it.

I’ll say it again, it’s just desperation to pull the trigger
 
yep and that sums it up completely £££££, where personally ££££ has never come into it.

I’ll say it again, it’s just desperation to pull the trigger
That is complete tosh, I pull the trigger as and when I deem it is safe to do so, l have walked away from plenty of shots. And anyone on here who has shot with me over the years and in particular the people who I have taken out to learn how to stalk will know I am happy to walk away if I do not feel it is right.
I have even turned down stalking where we were told the deer had to be head shot only.

There is a difference between wanting to, and desperate to, please don’t put me in the latter camp. That is plain insulting.
 
That is complete tosh, I pull the trigger as and when I deem it is safe to do so, l have walked away from plenty of shots. And anyone on here who has shot with me over the years and in particular the people who I have taken out to learn how to stalk will know I am happy to walk away if I do not feel it is right.
I have even turned down stalking where we were told the deer had to be head shot only.

There is a difference between wanting to, and desperate to, please don’t put me in the latter camp. That is plain insulting.
In that case sir you are one of very few
 
I use digital and get on great with it, simple reason I use my .243 for foxing and deer stalking. I have 1 rifle that does 2 jobs. I don't have space in the cabinet at the moment but in the future with the lead ban I think ill end up getting a .223 for foxing and then going with some nice glass on the deer rifle.
 
I know this has been said a lot but we have to consider the reason we go out shooting. If its for the experience and we arent worried if we spend 3 hours with no deer on the deck but have a great time ...then absolutely fine. If we actually want to reduce numbers on land with pressure why should we not look at being efficient and using the "tools" at out disposal? Does digital allow me to shoot more fallow on ground where there is a lot of pressure on the deer and they are in high density numbers...yes. Does this keep the landowner happy - yes. Will this keep the "traditionalists" happy - frankly that is irrelevant to me . Make your choices but at least show some respect to those who do something different. I have the utmost respect for people who want to use unmoderated rifles (just not in earshot of me), no bipod, fixed mag dayscopes and no thermal kit...just appreciate the same level of respect if I dont 👍
 
I know this has been said a lot but we have to consider the reason we go out shooting. If it’s for the experience and we arent worried if we spend 3 hours with no deer on the deck but have a great time ...then absolutely fine. If we actually want to reduce numbers on land with pressure why should we not look at being efficient and using the "tools" at out disposal? Does digital allow me to shoot more fallow on ground where there is a lot of pressure on the deer and they are in high density numbers...yes. Does this keep the landowner happy - yes. Will this keep the "traditionalists" happy - frankly that is irrelevant to me . Make your choices but at least show some respect to those who do something different. I have the utmost respect for people who want to use unmoderated rifles (just not in earshot of me), no bipod, fixed mag dayscopes and no thermal kit...just appreciate the same level of respect if I dont 👍
I’ve been at it a fair while now, best part of 25 years, one thing I will tell you is you will not reduce numbers, because all they will do is go to places where they are safe they are not stupid animals!

It’s called nature survival of the fittest, if you’re shooting them in the early hours of darkness they will just Feed in the middle of the night, you start shooting them in the middle of the night. They will just go to another piece of ground where they are safe.

This idea of anybody can get a night license is fine but it won’t last long another couple of three years of everybody going hell for leather and the numbers will go stationary again it’s not rocket science to work out.

They are a wild creature their genetic make-up is survival and survival at any cost and they will just do the complete opposite to what you do!

Anybody who thinks night license and night shooting is a solution to the problem is a ****ing idiot!
 
I know this has been said a lot but we have to consider the reason we go out shooting. If its for the experience and we arent worried if we spend 3 hours with no deer on the deck but have a great time ...then absolutely fine. If we actually want to reduce numbers on land with pressure why should we not look at being efficient and using the "tools" at out disposal? Does digital allow me to shoot more fallow on ground where there is a lot of pressure on the deer and they are in high density numbers...yes. Does this keep the landowner happy - yes. Will this keep the "traditionalists" happy - frankly that is irrelevant to me . Make your choices but at least show some respect to those who do something different. I have the utmost respect for people who want to use unmoderated rifles (just not in earshot of me), no bipod, fixed mag dayscopes and no thermal kit...just appreciate the same level of respect if I dont 👍
Respect to you Mike but...... I was using a night licence twenty odd years ago. Lamp and 2nd gen stuff in Scotland. After awhile, although you think it's wonderful and helps you get more deer, believe me they soon get used to whats happening. If you are able to find a hind/ doe on her own with a calf/fawn thats great. A bunch? Unless you are able to kill them all in one go, you've blown it. They will transmit the fear of the first shot to every group the survivors join, moderator or not. I'm talking Sika but it applies to other species as well.
 
I’ve been at it a fair while now, best part of 25 years, one thing I will tell you is you will not reduce numbers, because all they will do is go to places where they are safe they are not stupid animals!

It’s called nature survival of the fittest, if you’re shooting them in the early hours of darkness they will just Feed in the middle of the night, you start shooting them in the middle of the night. They will just go to another piece of ground where they are safe.

This idea of anybody can get a night license is fine but it won’t last long another couple of three years of everybody going hell for leather and the numbers will go stationary again it’s not rocket science to work out.

They are a wild creature their genetic make-up is survival and survival at any cost and they will just do the complete opposite to what you do!

Anybody who thinks night license and night shooting is a solution to the problem is a ****ing idiot!
If you saw what contractors have done to the red deer population in parts of Scotland, you’d change your tune.
 
Why do you see it so differently
In Scotland, it’s mostly commercial forestry, they eat trees, trees and money, that is the bulk of the crop nor for the wall and also vast swaithes.

Down here lots of little farms no real mass of forestry if there is that is government owned and they have their own contractors/ranges etc

Whereas Joe blogs the stalker will just shoot here at night and they’ll go elsewhere and find somewhere where they’re safe not rocket science
 
Respect to you Mike but...... I was using a night licence twenty odd years ago. Lamp and 2nd gen stuff in Scotland. After awhile, although you think it's wonderful and helps you get more deer, believe me they soon get used to whats happening. If you are able to find a hind/ doe on her own with a calf/fawn thats great. A bunch? Unless you are able to kill them all in one go, you've blown it. They will transmit the fear of the first shot to every group the survivors join, moderator or not. I'm talking Sika but it applies to other species as well.
Respect to you as well as I appreciate your views and experience and like the way you dont have to resort to "everyone is an ignorant idiot if they dont agree with me". However I wasnt making reference to shooting at night, I was referring to the first and last light and only relating this to my limited experience of shooting deer and specifically fallow on ground I shoot in the SW. We dont shoot a massive estate, we shoot a few "small" pockets of ground and digital allows us to shoot more deer but they arent shot every evening or morning for days on end.

I think being open to various options is the key thing but also keeping an open mind and realising different deer in different areas may need a differing approach (not suggesting that you dont already realise this).

The thing that is frustrating is when those on forum like this who start with the ignorant remarks like "night licences will make no difference etc"..however fortunately I have the worst offenders on ignore so dont have to read it as much :) 👍
 
Respect to you as well as I appreciate your views and experience and like the way you dont have to resort to "everyone is an ignorant idiot if they dont agree with me". However I wasnt making reference to shooting at night, I was referring to the first and last light and only relating this to my limited experience of shooting deer and specifically fallow on ground I shoot in the SW. We dont shoot a massive estate, we shoot a few "small" pockets of ground and digital allows us to shoot more deer but they arent shot every evening or morning for days on end.

I think being open to various options is the key thing but also keeping an open mind and realising different deer in different areas may need a differing approach (not suggesting that you dont already realise this).

The thing that is frustrating is when those on forum like this who start with the ignorant remarks like "night licences will make no difference etc"..however fortunately I have the worst offenders on ignore so dont have to read it as much :) 👍
That’s a dig at me! 😂😂😂😂

That’s hilarious, all you’re doing is following the crowd, you’re not looking at the bigger picture!

The bigger picture won’t come to light for maybe 2,3,4 more years, I know wager that their numbers aren’t any less! It’s just all **** and wind
 
Respect to you as well as I appreciate your views and experience and like the way you dont have to resort to "everyone is an ignorant idiot if they dont agree with me". However I wasnt making reference to shooting at night, I was referring to the first and last light and only relating this to my limited experience of shooting deer and specifically fallow on ground I shoot in the SW. We dont shoot a massive estate, we shoot a few "small" pockets of ground and digital allows us to shoot more deer but they arent shot every evening or morning for days on end.

I think being open to various options is the key thing but also keeping an open mind and realising different deer in different areas may need a differing approach (not suggesting that you dont already realise this).

The thing that is frustrating is when those on forum like this who start with the ignorant remarks like "night licences will make no difference etc"..however fortunately I have the worst offenders on ignore so dont have to read it as much :) 👍
Hi again Mike not being patronising, but be careful. This business of the first and last hour can cause problems. I had a lad using the digi stuff both day and last light. He is now back on glass after losing 2 deer, dog couldn't find either. Very difficult in the dark with a bunch of 60 taking off and only a little blood to start with. Neither of my lads are allowed to use digi now. These are Fallow.
 
Hi again Mike not being patronising, but be careful. This business of the first and last hour can cause problems. I had a lad using the digi stuff both day and last light. He is now back on glass after losing 2 deer, dog couldn't find either. Very difficult in the dark with a bunch of 60 taking off and only a little blood to start with. Neither of my lads are allowed to use digi now. These are Fallow.
All good advice and I respect what you say. Lucky to have never lost a deer yet but thats probably more of not shooting enough yet. The one thing I do think is that digital right on last light reduces the chances of a bed shot. Talked to one guy and he made a joke about what he called "black blobbing" when its getting to last legal light and its difficult to see the deer with glass. At least with digital you have a much clearer picture. With glass I reckon I stop 20 mins before last legal as I am not happy (my eyes are maybe not as good as some but this is using Swaro Z6i so a decent scope).

Generally I prefer first light rather then last as you can deal with the extraction, gralloch and trip to the game dealer in the light which is much easier.

Ultimately we make our choices and have to deal with the consequences 👍
 
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