16 year old and firearms.

[VSS]

This is my complaint Selous, it just seems nonsensical…but it’s the way it is it seems.

I find even the FEO’s are struggling to know what is what.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the current system regarding youngsters, although it does result in some slightly farcical situations.
The subject so often crops up on here about getting into shooting, and the undoubted benefits of being shown the ropes at a tender age and being allowed to tag along with a parent or trusted family friend.
I think that these rules are a nod to that tradition, and open the door for that parent or friend to take a youngster under their wing by making the gift of firearms and ammunition to get them started. Something important would be lost, I think, if a youngster simply went and bought their own. Sharing is caring.

 

[gixer1]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the current system regarding youngsters, although it does result in some slightly farcical situations.
The subject so often crops up on here about getting into shooting, and the undoubted benefits of being shown the ropes at a tender age and being allowed to tag along with a parent or trusted family friend.
I think that these rules are a nod to that tradition, and open the door for that parent or friend to take a youngster under their wing by making the gift of firearms and ammunition to get them started. Something important would be lost, I think, if a youngster simply went and bought their own. Sharing is caring.

I agree to an extent however, in this case it’s almost robbing my son of an achievement as he cannot legally buy the rifle he has spent the best part of 2 years saving for….he has to be handed it by me.

The other thing is, he competes with adults, not juniors and an example for his last gallery rifle competition was a solid 3rd place…1st and 2nd were both existing and ex-national team shooters.

It’s an example of a lad that is passionate about shooting sports, and (not to blow my own trumpet) but he’s a straight A student, never been in any trouble with the police, is involved in numerous extracurricular activities which all report that he is a good lad has been a cub, a scout and now an explorer, yet the system means if I am not in his presence there’s a number of restrictions on him, and I can’t help feeling that the yob that comes from a broken home, with a rap sheet as long as your arm and terrible academic background is praised when they achieve things kicking a football round a field - in fact there are numerous grants and awards for that sport.

Or if we want to align it with something more dangerous - archery or javelin.

And we wonder why the sport is dropping off.

I feel fortunate that the FEO’s we have here are very good and seem to make the efforts but the system just isn’t conducive with bringing on new people easily.

I know you must’ve gone through similar with your daughter VSS and in some reappears for a female it may be worse to do - a problem
I may have as my daughter is also coming up through and enjoying the target shooting side.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[VSS]

I agree to an extent however, in this case it’s almost robbing my son of an achievement as he cannot legally buy the rifle he has spent the best part of 2 years saving for….he has to be handed it by me.

The other thing is, he competes with adults, not juniors and an example for his last gallery rifle competition was a solid 3rd place…1st and 2nd were both existing and ex-national team shooters.

It’s an example of a lad that is passionate about shooting sports, and (not to blow my own trumpet) but he’s a straight A student, never been in any trouble with the police, is involved in numerous extracurricular activities which all report that he is a good lad has been a cub, a scout and now an explorer, yet the system means if I am not in his presence there’s a number of restrictions on him, and I can’t help feeling that the yob that comes from a broken home, with a rap sheet as long as your arm and terrible academic background is praised when they achieve things kicking a football round a field - in fact there are numerous grants and awards for that sport.

Or if we want to align it with something more dangerous - archery or javelin.

And we wonder why the sport is dropping off.

I feel fortunate that the FEO’s we have here are very good and seem to make the efforts but the system just isn’t conducive with bringing on new people easily.

I think you're overthinking it, making indignant noises about non-issues, and trying to rob yourself of some important father/son activities.
His achievement will not be in any way diminished by having to wait a while before spending his savings. He's clearly a patient lad, as you've already delayed by two years in applying for his FAC. And that FAC hasn't even been granted yet. How long is that going to take? Shall we say maybe 6 months? So, 18 months (let's say) from the time his FAC is granted he'll be able to walk into a gunshop and buy the rifle of his choice. In the meantime, you gift him a rifle to knock around with, and share with him, and give that all important parental guidance, and enjoy some quality time together. And he keeps on saving, so when they day comes he'll be in an even better position - both financially and in maturity - to buy exactly what he wants.

I know you must’ve gone through similar with your daughter VSS and in some reappears for a female it may be worse to do - a problem
I may have as my daughter is also coming up through and enjoying the target shooting side.

No problems encountered at all, despite the fact that she was a couple of years younger than your lad. The whole system seemed geared towards making things as smooth for her as possible. The FEO was fantastic, the local FLD were very encouraging, the support she had from the wider industry was incredible, as was the support from her school teachers, cadet leaders, etc (the people she used as referees).
And her FAC had open conditions from first grant.
I can honestly say that, compared with people who want to get into shooting and apply for a FAC later in life, the hoops she had to jump through were virtually non-existent.

Just go with it.
You're inventing problems that simlply aren't there.

 

[Colonel]

I noticed in the reply from the FOE that it said, one key held by Mini-Gixer and thr other being a responsible adult ( could be you or your wife ). Has your wife got a FAC? If not how is that legal, if the FOE found out that my wife knew where my keys were, I would have lost my certificate.

 

[VSS]

I noticed in the reply from the FOE that it said, one key held by Mini-Gixer and thr other being a responsible adult ( could be you or your wife ). Has your wife got a FAC? If not how is that legal, if the FOE found out that my wife knew where my keys were, I would have lost my certificate.

Double lock cabinet.
The wife, having only one key, wouldn't be able to open the cabinet without the FAC holding child being present.
But neither could the child take out the rifle without the sanction of the responsible parent.
It is a sensible solution.

 

[gixer1]

I think you're overthinking it, making indignant noises about non-issues, and trying to rob yourself of some important father/son activities.
His achievement will not be in any way diminished by having to wait a while before spending his savings. He's clearly a patient lad, as you've already delayed by two years in applying for his FAC. And that FAC hasn't even been granted yet. How long is that going to take? Shall we say maybe 6 months? So, 18 months (let's say) from the time his FAC is granted he'll be able to walk into a gunshop and buy the rifle of his choice. In the meantime, you gift him a rifle to knock around with, and share with him, and give that all important parental guidance, and enjoy some quality time together. And he keeps on saving, so when they day comes he'll be in an even better position - both financially and in maturity - to buy exactly what he wants.

No problems encountered at all, despite the fact that she was a couple of years younger than your lad. The whole system seemed geared towards making things as smooth for her as possible. The FEO was fantastic, the local FLD were very encouraging, the support she had from the wider industry was incredible, as was the support from her school teachers, cadet leaders, etc (the people she used as referees).
And her FAC had open conditions from first grant.
I can honestly say that, compared with people who want to get into shooting and apply for a FAC later in life, the hoops she had to jump through were virtually non-existent.

Just go with it.
You're inventing problems that simlply aren't there.

By inventing any problems that are not already there, and we don’t usually have to wait anywhere near that time up here (fortunately)

As I said. I think there are massively differing perceptions to shooting sports vs many other sports.

 

[gixer1]

Double lock cabinet.
The wife, having only one key, wouldn't be able to open the cabinet without the FAC holding child being present.
But neither could the child take out the rifle without the sanction of the responsible parent.
It is a sensible solution.

This is correct, however, I’m not sure why unlocking a cabinet is dangerous but then letting the FAC holder wander off into the woods with said firearm is see as not…

 

[VSS]

This is correct, however, I’m not sure why unlocking a cabinet is dangerous but then letting the FAC holder wander off into the woods with said firearm is see as not…

It just means there's a parental check in place as a safeguard. Basically, the FAC holding child can't just wander off into the woods with said firearm unless the responsible adult sanctions it.
If the parent (or other responsible adult) feels that the youngster isn't yet ready to shoot unsupervised then the cabinet doesn't get unlocked until supervision is available.
It's not rocket science, and seems pretty sensible to me.

 

[gixer1]

It jusy means there's a parental check in place as a safeguard. Basically, the FAC holding child can't just wander off into the woods with said firearm unless the responsible adult sanctions it.
If the parent (or other responsible adult) feels that the youngster isn't yet ready to shoot unsupervised then the cabinet doesn't get unlocked until supervision is available.
It's not rocket science, and seems pretty sensible to me.

Fair enough if you are happy…

As I said. I think there are inefficiencies and the system could be improved.

 

[VSS]

Fair enough if you are happy…

As I said. I think there are inefficiencies and the system could be improved.

Well it worked for us, with remarkably little inefficiency. Granted, not all police forces would be the same, but NWP couldn't have handled it better, imo. I'll always be grateful to the FEO that we dealt with at the time for making a youngster's entry into the sport as uncomplicated as possible.

 

[gixer1]

Well, a small update - due to the (in my opinion) ridiculous rule that I need to have the firearms my son is looking to acquire on my cert - I need a variation…I contacted my FEO keen to get this done…and due to the system I cannot get this variation granted until after my son receives his FAC….so, I’ve got to swallow a 135% increase in the price of the variation…which to be honest isn’t cricket to me…I will undoubtably need the variation, and even if for some reason the FAC wasn’t granted I would only have authority to purchase…or something to that effect…

So a larger charge for something that is of no benefit to me.

Great….