.17 Hornet Reloading

[rob4586]

Good Evening folks,

My mate and I are not hugely experienced in reloading. That said, we've managed to get .243 and .270 spot on. My friend has bought a CZ 527 .17 Hornet and we've started reloading that....I know these smaller calibers are more tricky. The CZ527 has a whopping 24 inch barrel with (I believe) a 1:9 twist. As an initial stab we bought Lovex D060 powder (took from Quikload) and are using Hornady 25 Grain BT.

We've loaded incrementally in 0.1 grain increment (the accuracy of our kit) and loaded to a COAL of 1.723" and tested on the range. Anyway, we just cannot get the accuracy of 20 Gr S&B factory rounds, which clover leaf at 100 metres. With our 25 grain home loads the best we can get is 1.5 inch with 9.8 Gr of Lovex D060....this appear to be very near a node for a 24" barrel as the barrel time is 0.890 mS.

I cannot help but think comparing applies and pears isn't helping....25 home loads vs 20 grain factory, but there doesn't seem to be a 25 grain factory load? We want to use 25 Gr bullets for energy energy retention at greater ranges. In the interim we've ordered a chrono to see what speeds we are achieving on home loads - this will allow us to compare to the Quikload calcs.

I don't suppose anyone is shooting a similar rifle and has any advice? Maybe even a formula? I am not adverse to changing powders, but Quikload seemed to suggest Lovex D060 was a good place to start. Any adivce gratefully received.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Neddle]

Good Evening folks,

My mate and I are not hugely experienced in reloading. That said, we've managed to get .243 and .270 spot on. My friend has bought a CZ 527 .17 Hornet and we've started reloading that....I know these smaller calibers are more tricky. The CZ527 has a whopping 24 inch barrel with (I believe) a 1:9 twist. As an initial stab we bought Lovex D060 powder (took from Quikload) and are using Hornady 25 Grain BT.

We've loaded incrementally in 0.1 grain increment (the accuracy of our kit) and loaded to a COAL of 1.723" and tested on the range. Anyway, we just cannot get the accuracy of 20 Gr S&B factory rounds, which clover leaf at 100 metres. With our 25 grain home loads the best we can get is 1.5 inch with 9.8 Gr of Lovex D060....this appear to be very near a node for a 24" barrel as the barrel time is 0.890 mS.

I cannot help but think comparing applies and pears isn't helping....25 home loads vs 20 grain factory, but there doesn't seem to be a 25 grain factory load? We want to use 25 Gr bullets for energy energy retention at greater ranges. In the interim we've ordered a chrono to see what speeds we are achieving on home loads - this will allow us to compare to the Quikload calcs.

I don't suppose anyone is shooting a similar rifle and has any advice? Maybe even a formula? I am not adverse to changing powders, but Quikload seemed to suggest Lovex D060 was a good place to start. Any adivce gratefully received.

Thanks,
Rob

What is maximum charge weight quoted by quickload?

 

[David N]

I have been do the same but working up 20grain vmax and n120. Also done the same with 17grain BT with H110.

Agree not easy. I am using 1.715 coal. Found both loads are at the top end of the load rate. Also using quickload

I have the 20g down to 0.85" with a flyer. Take that out and 0.5"

It's taking long time had difficulty with my chronograph. I see if I can pop a picture up.
Are you using a chronograph?

as you can see it does not take much to change the picture. The 11.3 is running around 3434 with the 11.5 at 3485

 

[David N]

 

[Barkingsnake]

I had a Savage 17HH for quite a while and I found that the COAL made a big difference.
I used H322 with 25grain Berger and Hornady. It delivered better than 1MOA most of the time and could get down to 0.3MOA for five rounds.

 

[rob4586]

What is maximum charge weight quoted by quickload?

9.7 Gr of Lovex D060 is the max permissible according to quick load for the given COAL. 9.8 Gr is dangerous.

 

[Neddle]

9.7 Gr of Lovex D060 is the max permissible according to quick load for the given COAL. 9.8 Gr is dangerous.

Did you work out the h20 capacity of brass

 

[rob4586]

I have been do the same but working up 20grain vmax and n120. Also done the same with 17grain BT with H110.

Agree not easy. I am using 1.715 coal. Found both loads are at the top end of the load rate. Also using quickload

I have the 20g down to 0.85" with a flyer. Take that out and 0.5"

It's taking long time had difficulty with my chronograph. I see if I can pop a picture up.
Are you using a chronograph?

as you can see it does not take much to change the picture. The 11.3 is running around 3434 with the 11.5 at 3485

Hi David,

Thanks for the photos. The difference between the loads and the group sizes is incredible - certainly tallies up with what we've seen. We haven't been using a chrono, but we are currently awaiting delivery of one. We gathered we'd need one to make any progress and also measure the consistency of our loads.

A grouping of 0.5" like you've achieved would be fantastic - more than adequate for long range rabbit shooting. We've been recommended H110 too, but unsure how effective this would be with 25 grain bullets as it seems you use H110 for the 17 Gr bullets.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[rob4586]

Did you work out the h20 capacity of brass

That isn't something we have done to be fair. It's once fired brass, so thought handbook data would be reliable? Is this an oversight?

 

[rob4586]

I had a Savage 17HH for quite a while and I found that the COAL made a big difference.
I used H322 with 25grain Berger and Hornady. It delivered better than 1MOA most of the time and could get down to 0.3MOA for five rounds.

Excellent work, that's fantastic accuracy. Could you let me know what powder and how much, with what COAL seems to work for you?

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Neddle]

That isn't something we have done to be fair. It's once fired brass, so thought handbook data would be reliable? Is this an oversight?

Made a massive difference for me great quickload tutorial on youtube, it's by an Australian called Trent sonething

 

[rob4586]

Made a massive difference for me great quickload tutorial on youtube, it's by an Australian called Trent sonething

Thanks, will take a look and measure the H20 capacity.

Cheers,
Rob

 

[Neddle]

Thanks, will take a look and measure the H20 capacity.

Cheers,
Rob

Well worth it, surprising how much it effects the pressures and max powder charges

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Part of your problem comes with the small powder charges. A 0.1gn increase is a 1% increase or there about.
You are talking about making changes of a very small amount to make a considerable difference in the charge.
With 243 you have roughly four or five times the difference in weight ie .5 grain for each 1%.
As you can see it is easy enough to be out by a kernel or two to make a big difference in consistency with your loads.
Basically you have to be more accurate in your measuring than with your larger cartridges.

 

[David N]

1: h20 capacity is needed to get quickload to do its thing. I was very lucky that a member Neddle on the forum did the calculations for me. I also gave some other measurements.

2: h110 was ok with 17 grain ballistic tips but speeds were slow with 20 grain max. I change to n120. I think h110 would not work with 25grain. Max.

Another observation, when I was shooting factory rounds 20grain it was devastating and very destructive on rabbits. The 17 grain bullets work really well. Body shots do not have the explosive effect of the 20 grain. They are also so cheap at £5.50 per 100. Speed is much greater than my HMR, and at sensible ranges will despatch a Fox.

I have also found at 100 yards the point of impact is pretty close between the two rounds. I have yet to take the range out further to compare as the 20grain was only worked up yesterday.

 

[Zetter]

I know this probably doesnt help but I tried reloading 25 grain in my CZ .17 Hornet and the results compared to reloading 20 grain were less than spectacular. For 20 grain over 11.8 grain of H4198 I could get about 0.5 MOA most of the time but the 25 brain using the same powder and a 0.1 grain increment load ladder from the Hornaday reloading manual were doing over double that.
At the time I had my barrel chopped to 18" so I did wonder if that had an impact, but as it stood 20 grain were running well so I sold the 25 grain ones I had left on.

One thing I am going to look at is changing powders to something like one of the Vit powders as apart from the fact H4198 is now banned in the UK I have run into case capacity issues due to the size of the load required. I am still below max and no pressure signs on any loads but the cases are topping off with an almost compressed load.

Finally one of the pain things about .17 hornet is as Sonicdmb73 says above is the change of 0.1 of a grain can make a huge difference and even with my RCBS beam scales you have to be sooo careful with the trickler. I was tempted at one point to look on the bay and get one of the propper laboratory scales second hand but I thought this was getting a bit excessive for my bunny bopping rifle

 

[rob4586]

I know this probably doesnt help but I tried reloading 25 grain in my CZ .17 Hornet and the results compared to reloading 20 grain were less than spectacular. For 20 grain over 11.8 grain of H4198 I could get about 0.5 MOA most of the time but the 25 brain using the same powder and a 0.1 grain increment load ladder from the Hornaday reloading manual were doing over double that.
At the time I had my barrel chopped to 18" so I did wonder if that had an impact, but as it stood 20 grain were running well so I sold the 25 grain ones I had left on.

One thing I am going to look at is changing powders to something like one of the Vit powders as apart from the fact H4198 is now banned in the UK I have run into case capacity issues due to the size of the load required. I am still below max and no pressure signs on any loads but the cases are topping off with an almost compressed load.

Finally one of the pain things about .17 hornet is as Sonicdmb73 says above is the change of 0.1 of a grain can make a huge difference and even with my RCBS beam scales you have to be sooo careful with the trickler. I was tempted at one point to look on the bay and get one of the propper laboratory scales second hand but I thought this was getting a bit excessive for my bunny bopping rifle

Thanks buddy, it's really good to hear from someone who is using the exact same rifle.

I know CZ use a 1:9 twist. When I was having a play with quick load/quick target the Don Miller approximation seems to suggest this is an unstable round....which tallies with our results during shooting of development loads. I wonder whether 1:9 twist is an issue with 25 grain bullets?

 

[Zetter]

Thanks buddy, it's really good to hear from someone who is using the exact same rifle.

I know CZ use a 1:9 twist. When I was having a play with quick load/quick target the Don Miller approximation seems to suggest this is an unstable round....which tallies with our results during shooting of development loads. I wonder whether 1:9 twist is an issue with 25 grain bullets?

Hi Rob

I was wondering if that was the case with the twist but as I had introduced another variable i.e. chapped the barrel I was unsure at the time . it would be interesting to know what the twist rate is on the Savage .17 and see if that is different.

 

[David N]

From what I can find on the net both are 1:9 twist rate. I can see no reason why 25grain will not work. Its going to be either a powder issue or a prep issue.

I changed from H110 as I could not get the speed I was looking for 20grain was around 3000fps, changing to n120 has raised it to 3485 fps.

I think Needle points are where you should explore further. I gave him my data and he did his magic on quickload. This was for both powders and the results are spot on for both. If I had more calibres I would get quickload as i have been so impressed.

 

[Neddle]

1: h20 capacity is needed to get quickload to do its thing. I was very lucky that a member Neddle on the forum did the calculations for me. I also gave some other measurements.

2: h110 was ok with 17 grain ballistic tips but speeds were slow with 20 grain max. I change to n120. I think h110 would not work with 25grain. Max.

Another observation, when I was shooting factory rounds 20grain it was devastating and very destructive on rabbits. The 17 grain bullets work really well. Body shots do not have the explosive effect of the 20 grain. They are also so cheap at £5.50 per 100. Speed is much greater than my HMR, and at sensible ranges will despatch a Fox.

I have also found at 100 yards the point of impact is pretty close between the two rounds. I have yet to take the range out further to compare as the 20grain was only worked up yesterday.

Thanks only too glad to help