.22 LR non toxic

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There’s still some water to flow under the bridge yet, the common denominator is the higher .22 RF FPS the current manufacturers are using to stabilise the round.
I’m still waiting to hear from my local club if the rounds I will be using can be used on gallery targets etc, the higher FPS could be outside the parameters of the norm for internal ballistic barriers/mats = safety issue

it may be we can / could use lead for target but not sporting purposes
time will tell

 

[Bowland blades]

I'll go back into this again guys, not making trouble at all, and if a decent alternative ticks the box for personal choice, then I will go for it.
It has to be personal choice though, not a box ticking exercise.

22 ammo passes through the target and ends up in the ground not ingested by a second party, it does not expand to any fragmenting level, can be used for target shooting in ranges indoor and outdoor without becoming a toxic threat, likely to ricochet more when made of a harder compound making it more of a health and safety issue.

A bit more thought needs to go into why things need to change.

Main factor I ricochet potential is energy, the 22 does not actually ricochet more (in fact when it does it travels less distance with less energy) the issue with 22 ricochet is they are mostly subsonic especially after impact hence people are more aware they have occurred.
OK if a harder bullet than lead impacts and ricochets it won't likely deform as bad so maybe we get a few extra mtrs out of a ricochet ( that's it )
Every heard I ricochet from a deer calibre rifle? I haven't but I have seen them occur
Hmr doesn't ricochet? Also bull**** !
A safe shot is a safe shot

 

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another piece of the jigsaw is or will be lead fragmented in carcasses, someone will probably put up a load crap to ensure it can only be copper or non toxic

i feed my dogs meat i shoot and happy that they wont be getting any lead ingested, but a neck shot animal including deer where is the risk to the main carcasse or the depth of fragmentation on the normal H&L shot

someone will no doubt put another bit of legislation on the back of shooting lead for food

 

[Michael54]

Pity our sporting reps [BASC] are not more forceful on this issue. I seem to remember for shotgun and rifle lead ammo change would be science based however we seem to have ended up changing to appease anti's and politicians for no real gain.
I am still shooting lead in my rifles but testing standard steel home loads with plastic wads for shotguns. I do not know of a bio degradable wad available for home loading, there is a fibre one but I have no confidence in fibre with steel shot. No science on the plastic wad decision or lead rifle ammo.
Rant over guess I need to test some of this Norma lead free for 22lr.

 

[Bowland blades]

Pity our sporting reps [BASC] are not more forceful on this issue. I seem to remember for shotgun and rifle lead ammo change would be science based however we seem to have ended up changing to appease anti's and politicians for no real gain.
I am still shooting lead in my rifles but testing standard steel home loads with plastic wads for shotguns. I do not know of a bio degradable wad available for home loading, there is a fibre one but I have no confidence in fibre with steel shot. No science on the plastic wad decision or lead rifle ammo.
Rant over guess I need to test some of this Norma lead free for 22lr.

Non toxic wasn't fightable , it was however delayable . Remember BFSS fought an unwinnable fight for too long . This only meant they ran out of money , the hunting with dogs act could have been temper down more .
None toxic shot it not really so big a thing to shooting , the wider availability and further advances in wads need some time and they got us that !
Lead shot being discovered in duck , pheasant etc on supermarket shelves did us more damage than any anti shooting lobby did us on the non toxic issue .

 

[Klenchblaize]

Not sure if I'm missing something but is this what we must put up with?

K

 

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KB
I do hope not, I’m hoping that 22 ammo makers will come up with some more makes or types that will be better than the 22 hollow point I tested, they are like a scatter gun instead of a rifle

I shot all three rounds through Blaser and Anschultz 22’s that prior to the copper ammo both rifles have been really accurate and the shot cluster was identical in both rifles

The hollow points in copper my two rifles did not like at all, the further than target the worse it got i shot some at 70 on paper and whilst the CCI and the segmented copper was still holding up fine, the copper hollow point was a disaster at 70 yds

i‘m ok using the Norma copper segmented as they seem to be on the money at all the ranges I shoot probably out to 80 yds
but I’m going to keep looking and testing any that might fit the bill, the copper segmented performed faultlessly on rabbits as well

 

[Squirrelbasher]

I’m confident that manufacturers will come up with good non toxic .22 ammo including subsonic, within the next few years.

 

[Overlay]

I’m confident that manufacturers will come up with good non toxic .22 ammo including subsonic, within the next few years.

Fingers crossed, more will be available to various rifles, early days yet, as one of the other guys stated, 22 ammo must be the most widely used ammunition in the world, the income from that is something the manufacturers won’t want to see drop off, its the bread & butter round

 

[Pellet Pinger]

I’m confident that manufacturers will come up with good non toxic .22 ammo including subsonic, within the next few years.

I admire your confidence but I fear there will be a compromise.
Are we really expecting non toxic ammo to perform the same? Barrels prefer certain types and we have a large selection of lead to choose from at the min to give us optimum performance.
This vid is from the other night on the rabbits, Eley subs due to noise issues, I’d love to be confident of taking rabbits out to 120yds just opening a different box of ammo!

 

[Overlay]

I admire your confidence but I fear there will be a compromise.
Are we really expecting non toxic ammo to perform the same? Barrels prefer certain types and we have a large selection of lead to choose from at the min to give us optimum performance.
This vid is from the other night on the rabbits, Eley subs due to noise issues, I’d love to be confident of taking rabbits out to 120yds just opening a different box of ammo!

Nice night out matey, good old rimmy, never fails to step up to the job, I’m using CCI segmented (lead) and they perform faultlessly

 

[Apthorpe]

I’m confident that manufacturers will come up with good non toxic .22 ammo including subsonic, within the next few years.

...despite it being scientifically impossible to ever have good subsonic .22lr ammo not made of lead.

 

[Squirrelbasher]

...despite it being scientifically impossible to ever have good subsonic .22lr ammo not made of lead.

Well, personally I’d like to be able to stay with lead. I don’t know anything about alternatives being scientifically impossible, but then I’m not very scientific either I suppose

 

[Boosh]

Main factor I ricochet potential is energy, the 22 does not actually ricochet more (in fact when it does it travels less distance with less energy) the issue with 22 ricochet is they are mostly subsonic especially after impact hence people are more aware they have occurred.
OK if a harder bullet than lead impacts and ricochets it won't likely deform as bad so maybe we get a few extra mtrs out of a ricochet ( that's it )
Every heard I ricochet from a deer calibre rifle? I haven't but I have seen them occur
Hmr doesn't ricochet? Also bull**** !
A safe shot is a safe shot

Hey Bowland going to call you out now on this, and previous posts in this thread, and another thread which finds me here shaking my head on how much you have done in the field.

A 22 rimmie harder compound will ricochet more than a softer compound, its just physics.

Earlier comments about wildfowlers losing there license due to using lead shot is just plain daft, maybe losing there place in a club, but losing there license?

Another thread you state a 55 grn Nosler BT cannot seat deep enough in a .243 case when extracted from the press it drops out and powder falls everywhere?

Come on, wake up.

 

[Bowland blades]

Hey Bowland going to call you out now on this, and previous posts in this thread, and another thread which finds me here shaking my head on how much you have done in the field.

A 22 rimmie harder compound will ricochet more than a softer compound, its just physics.

Earlier comments about wildfowlers losing there license due to using lead shot is just plain daft, maybe losing there place in a club, but losing there license?

Another thread you state a 55 grn Nosler BT cannot seat deep enough in a .243 case when extracted from the press it drops out and powder falls everywhere?

Come on, wake up.

You totally mis understood . And mis read , only read what's written without adding bits
Yeah potential danger is calculated by muzzle energy on all UK range assessments , that's how a range is certified and is the origin how farmland etc was rated by calibre up to by police . Not stating 22 won't bounce just its tge shot taken not the bullet used . Everything can from a 12 ft lb 14 grain airgun pellet to a 50 bmg
55 grain nosler will not touch the rifling of a std factory 243 win , there is simply no bullet left for tge case to hold onto when you get to them ,
If you are caught using lead on a marsh illegally most basc affiliated clubs will / should report the matter . The person will find it very , very difficult to get another club membership and its a criminal offence not a civil offence hence you can loose your sgc . You could potentially find a club that decides to hush something up and tge member resigns but this isn't the correct procedure .

If you have an issue in future with me I suggest you use a dm save you any further embarrassment but I thought public should be returned public

 

[shbangsteve]

...despite it being scientifically impossible to ever have good subsonic .22lr ammo not made of lead.

It is scientifically possible to have good subsonic .22lr ammo not made of lead. Lead has density of 11.3g/cm3, bismuth 9.78g/cm3 and copper 8.9g/cm3. Tungsten however has a density of 19.3g/cm3. You can already get bismuth and tungsten matrix shotgun cartridges. I have no doubt that .22lr ammo will follow. You could in theory make 10 .22lr rounds out of the tungsten matrix used to make one shotgun cartridge. They would undoubtedly be more expensive but still not a lot more than a conventional lead shotgun cartridge and no one thinks twice about going through a box of those.

 

[308tikka]

Metals and Alloys - Densities

Densities of some common metals, metallic elements and alloys - aluminum, bronze, copper, iron and more.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

Density is one property, as is hardness and expense both to mine, and make into possible projectiles. Silver and palladium are close in density.... copper and copper alloys are the option for now and there will be good CNC options for accurate, expanding projectiles. If compressed tin /zinc can be made to work accurately and ethically on animals with copper jackets I dont see an issue except possibly cost.

I hope exemptions for lead remain for personal consumption- neck shooting and cutting below the wound wont bother me. The lead in gralloch argument isnt really valid, for scavengers or BoP. Ive had one liver shot animal early on in career where the projectile expanded into rumen, SST if I recall. Taking the gralloch off in bags was the sensible thing to do. It would be nice to keep taking vermin and corvids with lead - no food chain, no problem.