.223 for Roe deer.
- Thread starter Sako308
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I had a CZ that loved the 55gr Sako. Fantastic bullet. Maybe do the following, clean your barrel. Fire 4-5 fouling shots with the Sako ammo. Then try a group. Sometimes a barrel has to get used to a bullet before it gets good.
Saying that apart from light varmint bullets, deer seem to drop with almost any 55gr + soft point or ballistic tip. 55gr v-max from a 22-250 is one of the favourites used on Sika in Ireland. Even some match bullets work very well. For example 52gr Nos Custom Match or 69gr Nos CM.
edi
Saying that apart from light varmint bullets, deer seem to drop with almost any 55gr + soft point or ballistic tip. 55gr v-max from a 22-250 is one of the favourites used on Sika in Ireland. Even some match bullets work very well. For example 52gr Nos Custom Match or 69gr Nos CM.
edi
Sako75Hunter
Well-Known Member
I don't want to steer the thread off course, but a lot of people make a big point of how tough Sika are, how difficult they are to put down relative to other deer species, and that bigger cals like .270 and up are preferable (I'm only getting started myself, so can't speak from experience: I'll be using 'mere' 6.5x55 120gr. Sako Powerhead II). So I'm surprised (amazed even) to see that such a light bullet as a 55gr. in 22-250 works very well on them.
In my limited experience Sika go down like any other deer with a well placed shot. Sika aren't all that big in the scheme of things.
I have been using quality bullets though. I wouldn't consider these fragile ballistic tips for Sika, although they'd probably work in some cases.
I have been using quality bullets though. I wouldn't consider these fragile ballistic tips for Sika, although they'd probably work in some cases.
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For years we were restricted to .22 centre fire calibers firing a minimum of 55gn bullets, hence the once widespread use of the .22-250 for shooting deer. The main reason people found this a good calibre for Sika was because 99% of the Sika were neck shot. However now that the authorities permit calibers up to .30 very few people would buy a .22-250 for Sika. The bullet is totally unsuitable for reliable heart/lung shots. All the bullet needs to do is hit a shoulder blade to blow up and leave you with a deer very much alive and mobile with a horrible wound.
Sako75Hunter
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies lads
This post raises an important point.
A number of members have promoted the use of varmint bullets in this thread, particularly V-Max. There hasn’t been much in the way of shot placement discussion to support the use of varmint bullets on deer.
Head shooting? OK, if you must. Neck shooting? Hmm, OK, but a soft point would be better. Chest cavity shooting with the traditional shoulder shot? Not OK.
Simply put, if you were out with me and my mates, and you set up to shoot a deer in the shoulder with a V-Max, you’d be sent home very disappointed with yourself.
The comment above says “The bullet is totally unsuitable for reliable heart/lung shots. All the bullet needs to do is hit a shoulder blade to blow up and leave you with a deer very much alive and mobile with a horrible wound.”
Which bullet? Any 55gr bullet? Or any .223 bullet? True, there aren’t many 55gr bullets that I would shoot a deer in the chest with, very few actually. So few, that I wouldn’t even bother thinking about it because in the 60-70 gr range there’s a handful of excellent bullets for this purpose.
Its really important to discuss the issue of .223 bullet choice fully, alongside target game weight range, intended shot placement & anatomy, i.e. what method of incapacitation you’re after, velocity at point of impact to deliver the chosen bullet’s terminal performance. Using super accurate, fast .223 bullets on deer can deliver exceptionally clean killing and is the norm for many deer hunters around the world, from both bolt and AR type rifles. But at this end of the calibre range it is essential the shooter understands fit for purpose bullet construction.
Don’t use varmint bullets on medium game. There’s a reason that rule has been in place for decades.
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Appreciate the replies and thoughts, I’m not comfortable using a Vmax or BST bullets on Roe, hopefully will be able to source this Federal Fusion 62gr (or Vital-shok with Nosler Partition 60gr). Failing that I may home load them after all as various suitable .224 heads are available in the UK.
Hales Smut
Well-Known Member
Winchester Power Core 95/5 - 64 grain could be the solution. Being lead free and longer it might need a shorter twist, but probably will make the 223 punch in a higher league. Could be ideal for those 1-8" , 223 rifles.
Being a pure deer bullet, penetration will be better and meat damage less.
Being a pure deer bullet, penetration will be better and meat damage less.
The Sierra 63-gr SMP can shoot well in a 1:12 rifle, if you push it fast enough. It was made for that, being flat based and "semi-pointed" (SMP) - "stubby", in the words of Sierra, compared to the longer boat tail spitzers and hollow point bullets with will not stabilize. It was really made for the .22-250 with 1:14 or 1:12 twist.
But the SMP is a varmint bullet, fast opening at closer ranges, but not at longer range.
I have a Smith & Wesson ( Howa ) 1500 with 1:12 barrel which will shoot this bullet well, but it is 22 inches, so it achieves enough velocity to shoot this bullet MOA, but not as well as the 50, 52 and 53-gr bullets.
But the SMP is a varmint bullet, fast opening at closer ranges, but not at longer range.
I have a Smith & Wesson ( Howa ) 1500 with 1:12 barrel which will shoot this bullet well, but it is 22 inches, so it achieves enough velocity to shoot this bullet MOA, but not as well as the 50, 52 and 53-gr bullets.
Home Loader
Well-Known Member
Suggest 60 grn v max pushed by 26 grn Varget. Should shoot 1 hole gps at 100yds and more than sufficient for roe. Alternatively they have been excellent comments on the new 69 grn tipped match king. Its very accurate out of fast twist .223, mine shoots sub 2" at 400 yds. If you want to research this suggest you look for Bruce Potts article on .223 for roe, which was published in Shooting Times.(10th April 2008). Also there are several Scottish SD members who use .223 exclusively for roe and they are better experienced to comment.
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In Sept 2012, Whitebeard said:
V-Max is a varmint bullet and is designed for rapid expansion on small soft mammals.
There are many more suitable bullets for deer.
A few years back in the Goldfields I watched a bloke using a .223 come unstuck on goats on a mine dump. He wasn’t a home loader and always used bulk buy PPU softpoints, until this particular day when he switched to Varmint Express. He took a shot at a big old shaggy billy goat, uphill, quartering towards the shooter, and for some reason he chose the shoulder. It blew a dirty great big hole in the top of the shoulder and up into the upper half of the ribs below the spine. God knows how this poor beast didn’t get paralysed but he stumbled off into the scrub down the far side of the dump dragging his leg, bleating horribly... When we eventually found it... there’s a photo somewhere and if I can find it I’ll post it under the heading “what happens when a varmint pill fragments totally before sufficient penetration is achieved”.
It shouldn’t really have to take a gruesome fail to convince a shooter not to use light, fast varmint pills on medium game, even if they are light skinned, relatively light weight.
V-Max is a varmint bullet and is designed for rapid expansion on small soft mammals.
There are many more suitable bullets for deer.
A few years back in the Goldfields I watched a bloke using a .223 come unstuck on goats on a mine dump. He wasn’t a home loader and always used bulk buy PPU softpoints, until this particular day when he switched to Varmint Express. He took a shot at a big old shaggy billy goat, uphill, quartering towards the shooter, and for some reason he chose the shoulder. It blew a dirty great big hole in the top of the shoulder and up into the upper half of the ribs below the spine. God knows how this poor beast didn’t get paralysed but he stumbled off into the scrub down the far side of the dump dragging his leg, bleating horribly... When we eventually found it... there’s a photo somewhere and if I can find it I’ll post it under the heading “what happens when a varmint pill fragments totally before sufficient penetration is achieved”.
It shouldn’t really have to take a gruesome fail to convince a shooter not to use light, fast varmint pills on medium game, even if they are light skinned, relatively light weight.
paulux
Well-Known Member
I would choose the Federal Powershok 55 gr. I believe they are loaded with the Speer 55 gr Soft Point (# 1047).
That is the bullet I have setlled with for roe in my .222, after trying quite a few different bullets. It is in my experience better than the Sako Gamehead 55 gr, the Norma 62 gr SP, and the Hornady 60 gr SP : same stopping power but much less bruising with lung, shoulder or neck shots.
And that even though they are listed for varmint by Speer. Roe are indeed the size of an american coyote, and are not medium size game.
If you search this forum, you will find a few blokes that highly rate for roe that Speer 55 gr SP, or the .222 Federal Powershok 50 gr.
I've used 55gr sierra btsp, 60gr hornady sp, 70gr speer smp. All work well. Based on my experience with 70gr ballistic tips out of a 6ppc (excellent), I'd not reject the 55gr ballistic tip in 223 if it shoots well. I am not a fan of tough bullets in 22cf nor really expansive ones like vmax. The solid base of the BT helps give surprising penetration at sensible velocities.
When bullets don't expand well in 22cf the results are very poor. Lung shot roe can take a long time to go down if hit between the ribs on the way in and out. On balance the 55gr sierra btsp is my favourite
When bullets don't expand well in 22cf the results are very poor. Lung shot roe can take a long time to go down if hit between the ribs on the way in and out. On balance the 55gr sierra btsp is my favourite
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