28 bores

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

I have shot now with a 20B for 18 years,
I have a thing now for smaller gauges for game.
I have picked up behind Terry harper (england shot) using a 28 on a high pheasant shoot and he did as well as anyone even those using 34g's of 5's
Before I take the plunge have any of you experience on game with a 28.
Looked at a couple today both 30" Mc's very nice.
I'm tempted

 

[Dalua]

Just out of interest, what sort of load do people use in a 28bore nowadays, and how heavy are these 30" specimens?

 

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

My 20 is a 30" sporter mc.
A great gun and it handles 28gr Hv's with ease and little kick.
It wears 1/2 choke in both barrels and loves 5's
Its still a little lighter than a standard o/u 12 game gun but points better.
The 28's are fractionally lighter again (in sporters) but if you went to a game gun I would imagine maybe 5 1/2 lb?
And most game shots are using 23-25 gr of 6 or 7's.

 

[old keeper]

I've used a 28 on pheasant and seen several others on the shoots using them. They will do the job perfectly well but are a bit unforgiving unless you are spot on. If you are confident, go for it they are a very nice gun to use.

 

[Dalua]

I've never used anything other than a 12bore for game-shooting. 20b and smaller are certainly elegant and handy, but in my view 'pointability' is more to do with fit and balance that bore and weight.

I use 25gram loads in my 12bore when practicing on clays, and often 28g/1oz loads on game. I prefer the idea of a lighter load, no more than 1 1/16oz, in a 12 to absolutly caning some poor drinking-straw to death with a 12bore load!

Mind you, I'm a strong lad and can handle a 6.5lb gun with the best of them; and if you're going to use a 12bore load, it will be handled much more efficiently through a 12bore!

 

[bambislayer]

I am in a 28b syndicate great little gun, no room for error although I find the kills are clean as you are either spot on or not. I must admit you don't have the same range but like everything else you get to know you and your guns capabilities.

I don't go for heavy loads, i have an old h&h boxlock built in the 20's [my great uncle lost his arm at Galipolli and shot one handed with this gun, so it has great sentimental value, and many of my family learn't to shoot with it] .

 

[Hornet 6]

I have just sold (traded) a Miroku Mk70 28 bore, had it for a few years and loved it, just not using it much due to health reasons.
It weighed 6lb 5oz with it's multi choked 30 inch barrels, easy to carry, and still enough weight to swing well.
Walked up birds I used 24 gram loads, for high birds 28 gram loads rule, and still the recoil is less than 28 grams from a 12 or 20.
For clays 16 or 21 grams does the job, also good enough for rabbits.

Neil.

 

[Dalua]

I'm always a little sceptical when I read that shots are either missed or clean kills; not, I emphasise, because I doubt the skill and sportsmanship of those who say it, but rather that if a bird were pricked and flew on, one would not necessarily have any way of telling.
Furthermore, I think that the observed effect of more clean kills might be be in some measure result from those who choose to use smaller bores doing so beacuse they are good shots, skilled at judging range and shooting within their limits and those of their equipment.
It would then be coherent to argue that these sportsmen shoot well despite the limitations of their smallbore guns, and that while they make a good choice for a specialist, an average shot would be better off with 30grams of 6s through an ImpCyl/half 30" 6lb10oz 12bore. Like mine, in fact.

The argument used in favour of using a 12 or 16bore with loads approaching 1oz or more used to be that pushing a long, thin column of shot required a good deal more pressure than pushing a short fat one (witness the proof pressures of smallbore shotguns), and that this pressure would cause more deformation of the shot, and therefore more 'flyers' from the main pattern.
I guess that modern plastic wadding does much to mitigate this effect but given the choice, I would pick 28grams over a fibre wad through a 6.75lb12bore, rather than 28grams through a 28bore weighing only a few ounces less.

It is a grand thing to have the choice and to be able to excercise it as one wishes, though!

 

[old keeper]

Any keeper knows that what Dalua says is correct, in game shooting you are not using a rifle and some birds will get pricked with shot, how many is open to conjecture, you never know. There are few shoot days where I sweep round the following day and don't pick up a few birds that are pricked.
Unfortunately, in these days of a desire to shoot higher and higher birds a rise in pricked birds is inevitable. I have seen a very good shot using a 410 on driven pheasant and to a degree one could say that say in his case it was the nearest to killing or missing cleanly I have ever seen.

 

[sir-lamp-alot]

the trouble with using the smaller guage shotgun is that it has now become a thing by which people show off and only to the cost of there quarrry. i use a 12bore and to be honest i'm not the worlds best shotgun shot and i need all the lead in the air i can get but it does grip me when i see people pricking birds just because they want to brag that they can do what you do with a smaller gun. we all know that pellet for pellet all of the shotgun's are pretty much the same and a .410 can kill as good as a 12bore but before you run off down the gunshop to buy the latest fad in shotguns just think about how good you really are and weather you can truly do the job with a smaller gun and if you can, well done and good luck to you but if you cant there no harm in knowing your limits. as responsible game shots it's our duty to kill our quarry as quickly and cleanly as we can and not to have 3 pheasants suffering in a hedge where they have been shot just so we can tell all our mates about the 4th that we killed at 45yrds with a .410

 

[stone]

A 28 will kill as good as any at normalish shooting ranges
on saying that , what is normal,
Each person has there own comfort Zone of capability and quite often when they try to expand upon that range
it may be they will never cope no matter how much they practice on those 40+ yarders
A good dec/jan cock bird with a bit of sky between you and him going like the clappers curling in the wind off some of these hillsides and valleys takes some stopping
that is when I see the 28 start to fail, and also on some of the more adventurous birds that proove no bother for the 20,
snap shooting is another especially where snpie and woodcock are concerned

I feel you do need to be a good shot to get the full benefits of the 28
not just average
As is it may take 3 seasons to get used to shooting , some will see the benefits a little sooner as you may well do if you are out all the while
but it can be a costly couple of years getting used to a gun if your not

Also you may be able to get a set of 28 barrels to fit the 20 chassis you already hav, depending on make and model
benefits are you will be used to the stock you already shoot with , saves getting used to another gun
The biggest problem I found with a 28, is getting shells especially non-toxic but they are getting easier to source now
It's your money and your choice
I don't think you will be dissapointed , but you will soon learn your limitations and then from there will you be able to decide wether it was the right choice or not

A fella once said to me when I went from a 12 to a 20
"Why handdicap yourself"
in the first year I did doubt that myself , but now the 20 is my main toy
I am still thinking about a 28 and will get one once funds are a little more stable untill then I will keep using the BIL's and his carts

 

[Moonraker68]

I've had 12's and 20's in sbs & o/u, and a 28 in o/u. With all of them, the main thing is making sure that the fit is correct. I'm currently using an AYA No4 20 bore, and since having 1. the stock lengthened 2. the comb raised & 3. some cast added, I'm more than impressed with its effectiveness in most situations...especially snap shooting over woodland rides. I've still got an o/u 12 for higher birds though, as the extra weight helps maintain a steady swing. The trouble is, I'm always looking to try something new.....

 

[sean]

I have shot a 28g for about 10 years,It is a superb little calibre as long as you don,t expect to shoot 45 yard plus phesants with it.Average birds at 25-35 yards 24grams of 5's will deal with these no problems as long as you are accurate.I have shot more pigeons this summer with a 28 than the 12 i use eley vip 24 gram 5's and they seem to be an exellent little shell.
ATB SEAN

 

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

I will clarify my question a little.
Me and my 20 bore will kill as many as anyone on most shoots I go on.
(trying not to sound big headed) but I am a very good game shot and shoot 3 for 4 on most shoots I attend (including some high birds).
But alot of e.yorks are flat plains between hills great partridge and pheasant shooting at 15-30 yards.
I just fancy the smaller gun for those days.
I have keepered and also picked up most of my life and know how hard life can be for the dogs with bad shots, bad choice of shot and calibre.
I would only take the gun where shots would be within our limits.
I do tend to "middle" many birds and on a lowland shoot this can be embarrasing (why I use 5's not 7's) a 28 would be more fitting on those shoots would it not??

 

[sir-lamp-alot]

if your a good game shot and you will be shooting at ranges bettween 15-30yrds then i personaly think that yeah maybe a 28bore would be fine it's going to be a lot lighter obviously than a 12 or even your 20 and it's not going to blow the birds apart at the shorter ranges and if it was me i would looking at a nice old side by side but thats just me good luck with it

 

[enfieldspares]

I think that the thing to remember is that a 12 bore shoots the same as a similarly choked 28 bore except that the 12 bore has more pellets in the load.

There is no "magic" that a 28 bore somehow shoots (unless it has a tighter choke) a denser pattern than a gun of larger bore.

So inevitably any bird will be hit, wherever it is in that often quoted 30" circle, with less pellets from a 28 bore load than from a 12 bore load of similar choke. That is fact.

So essentially the "maths" is that either you go to a tighter choke or you shoot a load that has more (by using a smaller shot size) pellets such as English No 7.

To give, in other words, a pattern adequate to either kill the bird outright or to, as Payne-Gallwey theorised to stun it so that it falls and the shock of the impact with the ground kills it.

Except I do read of an alternate theory which is that these 28 bores actually are better with No 5 shot on the basis that one or two single body hits No 5 shot will kill anyway.

I don't know but given that most game is shot a twenty-five yards anyway I think that a 28 bore is probably adequate and humane with No7 or No 5.

I would however deplore its use on long thirty yard shots at any ground game.

 

[Heym SR20]

Have n't used a 28 Bore much - last one I shot was an Alex Martin over and under on a clay shoot and it was dealing with all targets jsut as well or as badly as I could do with my regular 12. One thing that does seem a trend is that many small bores over nad unders are whilst technically a 20 or 28 are in reality really shooting the 12 or 16 bore load of 1oz and 1 1/6oz out of a gun weighing best part of 7lbs and perform very similarly. The Alex Martin is int his category. They are often heavier than a traditional side by side 12 or 16 bore.

What I like about 28 bore over and unders is that they are very sleek and point well.

But if you go for a proper small bore - ie weighing c 5lbs then you have a very lively little gun. I have a 410 side by side that is an absolute joy to carry and use and ideal for use on a walked up / rough driven shoot where a degree of snap shooting and short ranges are the norm. Also if the bag is principally the smaller species - ie partridge, woodcock etc.

When / if I connect they are just as dead as if hit with a bigger gun. But it is a more difficult gun to use to hit longer range targets - its lightness makes it much less steady and you also don't have a huge amount of shot and patterns will be getting thin. I have also found that No 7 shot in the 410 is lot more effective than 5 or 6s - a denser pattern.

I tend to take it out on days when there is no pressure on the bag and you can pick and choose your shots, or just going out for an evening potter after a couple of pigeons etc.

Saying that my go to gun is 12 bore O/U which is a gun I have a lot of confidence in and when I am on form not much gets past.

 

[www.yorkshireroestalking.]

Well I borrowed a Miroku 30" sporter today and well did it handle itself well.
I shot 5 mallard and 6 pheasants + a jackdaw for 15 shots all sporting birds from 18-30 yards all were dead apart from 2 of the ducks which were probably 35yds, but that was me who backended them, they were however picked.
I am taken with the gauge.
What I will say is if I didn't shoot a 20 already I would go to a 28, but they are so similar I cannot see any point unless i find a really lightweight game gun I like.
But for most game shoots its all you need if pointed right. 23 gr of 6's did the job every time.

 

[bbrc]

One point that has'nt raised it's head yet is how difficult it is to find non toxic shot cartridges for the smaller bore shotguns, this make them too much trouble to bother with imo.
Taking a light pointable gun on a shoot is nice but when you can only get lead shot cartridges for it what then?
I suppose the smaller bore advocates would have to stand on the duck drives or flights with guns in bags or break the law.
I'd rather not risk my tickets myself.

 

[stone]

One point that has'nt raised it's head yet is how difficult it is to find non toxic shot cartridges for the smaller bore shotguns.

The biggest problem I found with a 28, is getting shells especially non-toxic but they are getting easier to source now