308 Barnes TTSX 130gn & CFE223 Quick Load

[AlexN]

Hi everyone,

Looking for a bit of help from you more seasoned reloaders!

I’ve been struggling to find a load to launch the 130 grain TTSX out of my 308 with 20” barrel. Today I tried, 46, 46.5 and 47 grains of N140 and found that the velocity gradually decreased as the powder charge increased . At 46 grains the bullet averaged 2702 fps, albeit with quite a large degree of variation between shots:

Shot 1) 2693
Shot 2) 2666
Shot 3) 2749

Now, I’m not particularly happy with these speeds as I’m currently getting this with my 150 Nosler BT using CFE223 and I’m nowhere near max charge weight.

I’ve seen on a few U.S forums that people are getting great results by combining the 130gn TTSX and CFE223... however I cannot find any load data for the life of me. I know these bullets are longer than standard non-monolithic bullets, so I don’t want to use any of the load data for 130gn bullets that seems so freely available.

So could those of you with more experience reloading bullets, please point me in the right direction for a minimum and maximum charge weight for CFE223 with the appropriate C.O.L?

Thanks in advance!

Alex

 

[takbok]

In the 308 Win I would start at 50gr CFE223 for the 130gr TTSX and load it to the 2.735" length specified in the Barnes data. I would go up in 1gr increments until you see pressure signs or hit around 3100 fps or thereabouts, whichever comes first.

Hodgdon data for 130gr jacketed bullet is 52gr - 54gr CFE223
Hodgdon data for 150gr Nosler E-tip monolithic is 49gr - 51.1gr CFE223. This is what I based the above on.

I'm sure that a quickload expert will be along shortly.

Here's a link to some N140 loads:

Barnes ttsx

The interesting thing is that a friend of mine has been talking to a FC guy to get an idea about what he should buy as his first deer rifle and the advice he has been given is a .243. Reason given is that the FEO/Police are more inclined to grant this rather than a 6.5 or .308w. It’s just...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

 

[nun_hunter]

When I had a 308 I tried that exact combo and could not get it to group well at all. Rifle was very accurate with all other loads but never got the Barnes to shoot well with CFE223 and gave up trying.

 

[Selous]

I don’t know if this helps but I have just lifted this from a message I sent to another SD member regarding the 130g TTSX in 308 Win with 20 inch tube. Your velocity looks a bit low. We’re you just measuring velocity off one single shot or groups? What chrono were you using? If it is an optical chrono light changes could be giving you a duff reading


I have checked our load data for the N140 and there appeared to be a nice wide node around 3035fps with between 47.7 and 48.1 g N140. Our max load tested with N140 was 48.7g = 3098fps

With N135 the node was narrower and around 3055fps 45.7-45.9 grains N135. Our max load was 46.7g N135 which gave 3125fps

We chose 47.9 g N140 with lapua cases and CCI 200 primer seated 50 thou off the lands in the end due to the width of the node and the group size.

 

[AlexN]

I don’t know why the velocity is so low? I’m seating them so the overall length is 2.79”, and the chrono is about 5ft from the end of the silencer. I don’t crimp the cases either.

 

[Selous]

By the sounds of it you are using an optical chronograph, which can be random number generators at times. This would be the first thing I would look at and try to find a friendly local with a magnetospeed or Labradar to verify these results if possible. You can probably increase the charge weight of N140 taking care to monitor for pressure signs. If you run out of case capacity then a faster powder is the logical next step. If we take your velocity figures as correct then you will reach max pressure at around 49.8 grains but the velocity is still lower than ideal and the % fill is over what I would expect to fit in the case. I am happy with up to about 105%

The following is a QL simulation based on the velocity from 47g N140 at 2750 ish fps. This took a substantial reduction in Ba value to get this to match so please bear in mind this simulation will only be as accurate as your velocity data so please do not regard it as correct


Cartridge : .308 Win. (CIP)
Bullet : .308, 130, Barnes 'TTSX'BT 30364
Useable Case Capaci: 48.979 grain H2O = 3.180 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Vihtavuori N140 *C ?

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 85 37.60 2207 1406 26101 6515 83.4 1.301
-18.0 87 38.54 2261 1476 27698 6747 84.7 1.268
-16.0 89 39.48 2316 1549 29404 6976 86.1 1.237
-14.0 91 40.42 2371 1623 31228 7202 87.3 1.205
-12.0 93 41.36 2427 1700 33177 7424 88.6 1.174
-10.0 96 42.30 2483 1780 35267 7640 89.8 1.144
-08.0 98 43.24 2540 1862 37504 7851 90.9 1.114
-06.0 100 44.18 2596 1946 39904 8055 92.0 1.085
-04.0 102 45.12 2653 2032 42479 8251 93.1 1.057
-02.0 104 46.06 2711 2121 45249 8439 94.0 1.029
+00.0 106 47.00 2768 2212 48226 8618 94.9 1.002
+02.0 108 47.94 2826 2305 51434 8787 95.8 0.975 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 110 48.88 2884 2401 54896 8944 96.6 0.947 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 113 49.82 2942 2499 58636 9090 97.3 0.920 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 115 50.76 3001 2599 62655 9223 97.9 0.893 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 117 51.70 3059 2701 67072 9343 98.4 0.868 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 47.00 2920 2462 58071 8717 99.2 0.929 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 47.00 2577 1916 39564 8095 86.9 1.085

 

[AlexN]

Thanks for all your replies! I’m using a Pro Chrono, although it is about 12 years old. I’ll up the charge weight slowly on the N140 and see how I get on, although the Vint website suggests I’m already at max charge weight. I’ll have a go with the CFE223 starting at 50 grains over the weekend as well and report back my findings.

 

[Totsy]

I use 130gn TSX, lap brass, Federal match primer and N140 @ the low 47gns for 2923 through a chrony F1. 20” barreI. I had a node at 46.8 - 47.2gn. Went up to 48gn with no pressure signs but accuracy suffered.
My load is about .8” @ 100m but I’m not that bothered. I wanted safe speed and minute of deer.
I have some N135 to try as well.
I now have a magnetospeed and early trials with the .243 show faster speeds than the chrony F1. Not put the .308 over it yet.

 

[AlexN]

So I loaded a bunch of the 130 gn TTSX with up to 47.5 grains of N140 which achieved an average of 2693fps, also loaded 52 grains of CFE223 which produced an average of 2842fps. I think there must be something wrong with the Chrono, as these speeds seem much slower than what all of you have been experiencing. Needless to say, I went with CFE223 because I was clover leafing at 100 meters.

 

[HeavySako]

I’ve just started working up some loads with Ramshot Tac, in my .308 Tikka T3x 20”. barrel. I struggled to get any consistency with CFE .223 and I’ve got a surplus load of N140 that I won’t even try on these bullets.

Best I've managed so far was a 0.8” group at 100m.
RWS brass,
50.2 gr Tac
Fed match primer,
2.880 Coal. (The coal to the lands on my rifle was 2.940)

Max load of Tac 51.2 gave me a 4 round ragged hole around 0.4” Unfortunately it also gave me a sticky bolt and flattened primer so a backed off a full gr.

I haven’t chrono’d the loads yet, but going on Barnes own load data these should be traveling between 2900/3000 FPS.

I’ve ran out of Tac and bullets until I get up to Cranks so the development has paused for now.

Interestingly I tried 2 x boxes of the factory ammo in these as well. £55 a box, they were averaging 2” groups in the tikka. Hence the need to reload.

P.s if anyone has any of these 130 TTSX bullets for sale give me a shout.

I’ll keep you posted once I get more supplies if you’re interested?

 

[JabaliHunter]

I’ve got a surplus load of N140 that I won’t even try on these bullets.

Just curious why you don’t want to try N140?

 

[monarman]

If you're cloverleafing at 100 meters you should stop at that and not worry about any more velocity... ... its a 308 after all.... familiarise yourself with the trajectory of that load and then put the bullet in the right place and it'll do its job.

I'm doing a similar thing with my creedmoor.... using 120 nosler e-tip bullets behind 43 grains of RL17.... i don't know its velocity but it shoots accurately so I'll leave it at that.... ive homeloaded tor 25 years and never once chronographed a load.... i load to be the most accurate and then go out and use it.

At the end of the day any load with a monolithic bullet is not gonna expand like a lead core.... so as long as your loads are A: deer legal... and B: above the recommended minimum velocity of that bullet (manufacturer will tell you..or google)..... you need to worry more about a where the bullet is going before and after the shot is taken.

I will happily stick to factory lead free ammo if I can find one that is accurate enough for my needs and not more than £40 a box!!....

 

[HeavySako]

Just curious why you don’t want to try N140?

For me, I just found N140 worked better with bullets of 150gr and above.

Monarman you’re absolutely right. However , reloading for me has become an enjoyable sub hobby from Stalking. I just like to push the boundaries with accuracy and velocity. I guess it’s a bit like tinkering with car. I do it with all my calibers. Don’t need to I just enjoy it. My hunting load for the .308 is Varget with 150gr Nosler partitions. But I still like to experiment with different types of bullets and powders. It gets me out of the house.

The next project after this one is RWS Evolution bullets

 

[borbal]

Shot 1) 2693
Shot 2) 2666
Shot 3) 2749

What is your barrel length?

 

[AlexN]

It’s a 20” barrel. However, I was doing some tests with this load on my friends range today and averaged 2848pfs (52gn of CFE223). I’m currently got an overall cartridge length of 2.80”, would seating the bullet deeper increase velocity as a result of increased pressure?

 

[Kiwiroger]

Hi everyone,

Looking for a bit of help from you more seasoned reloaders!

I’ve been struggling to find a load to launch the 130 grain TTSX out of my 308 with 20” barrel. Today I tried, 46, 46.5 and 47 grains of N140 and found that the velocity gradually decreased as the powder charge increased . At 46 grains the bullet averaged 2702 fps, albeit with quite a large degree of variation between shots:

Shot 1) 2693
Shot 2) 2666
Shot 3) 2749

Now, I’m not particularly happy with these speeds as I’m currently getting this with my 150 Nosler BT using CFE223 and I’m nowhere near max charge weight.

I’ve seen on a few U.S forums that people are getting great results by combining the 130gn TTSX and CFE223... however I cannot find any load data for the life of me. I know these bullets are longer than standard non-monolithic bullets, so I don’t want to use any of the load data for 130gn bullets that seems so freely available.

So could those of you with more experience reloading bullets, please point me in the right direction for a minimum and maximum charge weight for CFE223 with the appropriate C.O.L?

Thanks in advance!

Alex

I haven't used cfe223 but Winchester 748 gives will over 3000fps with ttsx 130 s.
I've been using these with 748 in my Steyr 308 for about 7 years absolutely deadly!

 

[AlexN]

I haven't used cfe223 but Winchester 748 gives will over 3000fps with ttsx 130 s.
I've been using these with 748 in my Steyr 308 for about 7 years absolutely deadly!

Win 748 is a great powder, but hard to get hold of now it’s on the band list. It was the first powder I ever loaded with and was getting almost 2900fps with 150 grain SST’s!