375 zeroing approval

[Seanpaul]

Hi


ive recently got permission for a 375 H&h and purchased one a couple of weeks ago.


My certificate reads '375 H&H is not to be fired in the UK' this is pretty clear.


I wanted to get it put on my European Firearms Pass aswell as getting permission to zero with solids and expanding where I live (rated up to .308)


i have a 'closed' firearms cert


Would you advise getting the efp first then permission to zero on approved ground followed by getting the FEO down to approve the land up to 375 or do you think Sussex police would stomach a written request for all three and the £26 cheque in the post?


Thanks

 

[8x57]

The European Firearms passport should just be a matter of contacting the firearms department and asking them to send you one. There's no cost involved and there should also be no cost involved in simply varying the conditions on a firearms certificate. Getting them to agree to varying the conditions so as to allow you to zero your .375 on open ground may be another matter though but they should at least permit you to use it on a suitable range.

 

[CharlieT]

I'm no expert, but this very matter is addressed in the Home Office "Guide to Firearms Licensing to the Police" in section 13.3.

As the EFP is a separate issue to the one of use I would apply for the EFP now and then put in writing to your Firearms Licensing Manager your request that your FAC be conditioned for zeroing in the UK, drawing his attention to the relevant HO guidance and of course don't forget an ammo allowance (if you don't already have one)

 

[deerstalker.308]

you will find, especially if you have a closed certificate in the first place, that the best you are likely to get is something along the lines of 'may zero only on ranges which carry suitable insurance for this calibre' and this was only with non expanding ammo too (the wording may be slightly incorrect as I can't remember what mine said before I got them to change it, but it was to that effect).
They also tied themselves up in knots with other wording such as 'may only be carried to and from a port of embarkation for the purposes of use over seas' but in doing so made no provision for me taking it to zero.....
If I were you, as said before, get your EFP, that bit is simple and backs up an intention to travel with it, then build a case for use in GB, but you may well struggle especially if you currently don't have an open certificate, and even if you do, you may really have to justify the land on which you intend to use it on, I had to reference land in Scotland and Wales before they would allow it.
I wouldn't have even gone down the route of trying to persuade them to clear my zeroing ground for that calibre, you will almost certainly get stone walled....

 

[Seanpaul]

Thanks chaps.

I already have a efp for my 300 win mag. so have a slot to get the 375 added. I have an ammo allowance of 50 rounds not specified whether they are expanding or not and the only to be carried from the port of embarkation clause

 

[8x57]

If its not specified as expanding then you won't be able to buy expanding in this country.

 

[bullet chucker]

I agree with 8x57, Send your EFP in to have your 357 included on it,(not a problem) Also include your FAC with a covering letter of request stating what you require. ie, zeroing and target practice on aprooved ranges for that class of weapon. Ammo leval and type to be specified if not already done so.
I cannot see that there can be a problem, after all how many shooters are using '50 cal' rifles on specified ranges !

 

[scrumbag]

Good luck.

Might be worth trying for expanding as well. You should be allowed to zero with the ammo you are going to use so if after plains game or boar for example, you will use expanding. Solids only is not sufficient. And if you have expanding ammo for that... why not use it on deer and boar in this country?

Be very polite but don't take any rubbish.

Home office guidance states:

Overseas use



[FONT=Helvetica 45 Light,Helvetica 45 Light][FONT=Helvetica 45 Light,Helvetica 45 Light]13.35 Individuals going overseas may wish to hunt animals not found in this country and wish to acquire firearms for this purpose. This may include, for example, big game or dangerous game animals such as elephant, Cape buffalo, lion or leopard; or plains game, such as various species of antelope.

13.36 Rifles for this purpose may include bolt-action or double-barrelled rifles of various calibres, often very large and of high (4,000-5,000 foot pounds) muzzle energies. These might include .375 H&H Magnum for Plains Game, calibres between .375 H&H Magnum and .600 for Big Game, .300 Winchester or greater for bear, and 9.3mm x 74R for boar.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica 45 Light,Helvetica 45 Light][FONT=Helvetica 45 Light,Helvetica 45 Light]
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica 45 Light,Helvetica 45 Light][FONT=Helvetica 45 Light,Helvetica 45 Light]

13.37 The police will wish to be satisfied that an applicant has genuine intentions to use such rifles abroad, though such visits may be infrequent. Zeroing and practicing with non-expanding ammunition may be permitted in the UK, providing a suitable range or land is available. Those who home-load their non-expanding ammunition for such zeroing will also need to test and chronograph it. Some rifles intended for antelope and other plains game may also be suitable for deer, boar or other quarry shooting in this country. Once initial "good reason" has been established for a rifle in shooting "dangerous game", it may also be considered for shooting the larger deer species and boar in Britain. Expanding ammunition may (must in the case of deer) also be authorised for an applicant whose certificate allows for the rifle also to be used for shooting deer or boar in Britain. Where a shooter experiences difficulties in obtaining "dangerous game" cartridges in the country where that game is to be hunted, arrangements can be made for a dealer to export an appropriate quantity which can be collected by the shooter at the point of embarkation. Individuals may be authorised expanding or non-expanding ammunition in line with typical amounts authorised for use in firearms for target and quarry shooting."

To me, given they mention 375H&H there, sounds like you should be allowed to use yours. See if you can't push for opening up your cert as well.

(It looks like I might have to try something similar if I return to the UK with my 9.3x62 so wish us both luck.)

Link here:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...nce_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v6_Nov_2013.pdf

ATB, Scrummy
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Seanpaul]

If its not specified as expanding then you won't be able to buy expanding in this country.

My mistake forgot to mention:

Rfd didn't flinch as the conditions read the holder may puchase, hold and acquire expanding ammunition in the calibers authorized by this certificate but they can only be used in connection with the shooting of deer and aolq...

My my interpretation is buy them but don't ever fire on in the UK!

 

[TH4]

I have 375 and 416 on mine with zeroing at suitable ranges and purchase of solid and expanding ammo but solid only to be used for zeroing not expanding. Thats with Thames Valley

 

[8x57]

My mistake forgot to mention:

Rfd didn't flinch as the conditions read the holder may puchase, hold and acquire expanding ammunition in the calibers authorized by this certificate but they can only be used in connection with the shooting of deer and aolq...

My my interpretation is buy them but don't ever fire on in the UK!

Well that's something entirely different and to be honest to me it would suggest that there's no reason why you can't shoot deer and AOLQ in the U.K. Sounds like you have two contradictory conditions on your certificate. Perhaps you should post all the conditions up on the site and see how others read them.

 

[tackb]

so the law prevents you from zeroing with expanding ammo in the uk and only allows you to zero with different ammo to that you may use against dangerous game ? that's how I read it ?

anybody fancy getting mauled by a lion so we can pursue a health and safety prosecution against the police ?

 

[scrumbag]

so the law prevents you from zeroing with expanding ammo in the uk and only allows you to zero with different ammo to that you may use against dangerous game ? that's how I read it ?

anybody fancy getting mauled by a lion so we can pursue a health and safety prosecution against the police ?

I think we should push back against this, there must be a good practice guide that states in language even plod can understand and not quibble over that a particular rifle is zeroed to a particular brand, bullet type and bullet weight and zeroing and practicing only with solids when expanding will be used is not best practice, humane or safe. (You wouldn't say your .308W was zeroed for your hunting ammo if you'd only shot FMJ through it would you?)

Also, if you have a .375 or similar for plains game. "May be suitable for larger deer and boar" - Ask "plod" why it isn't? And if they have granted it for your use and to keep in your safe, why can't you use it in the UK?

 

[375 mag]

Where your going wrong is letting the police dictate what you have, try telling them what you want !
Send a letter in requesting an open ticket with the 375 allowed for deer in this country with permission to zero on your land with expanding ammo.
This is a deer legal caliber and should have no restrictions put on it, its no different to any other deer legal caliber

 

[scrumbag]

Where your going wrong is letting the police dictate what you have, try telling them what you want !
Send a letter in requesting an open ticket with the 375 allowed for deer in this country with permission to zero on your land with expanding ammo.
This is a deer legal caliber and should have no restrictions put on it, its no different to any other deer legal caliber

Well said that man!

 

[deerstalker.308]

Well said that man!

It is worth noting that the HO guidelines have been altered in the past 12 months for this calibre, and whereas before it was seen as being on the smaller end of the scale for African game and therefore suitable for larger species of deer in the UK, it is now classed as a 'dangerous game' calibre suitable for larger African species.
I know this shouldn't really change anything, but there is a word in there for the police to have to swallow and that is 'DANGEROUS' so expect more hoops to jump through in the future....

 

[HME]

It is a sad fact that in order to possess expanding ammunition for your 375 H&H in this country you will have to have it conditioned for shooting deer or Boar, fact. No amount of begging or pleading will change that unless your constabulary are willing to break from home office guidance, good luck on that one. Solids are a completely different kettle of fish and they should allow that for you to at least become aquatinted with your firearm before travelling, the only question then is where to have a play so to speak - one of the reasons that I built my range was to allow holders of heavy calibre's to do just that.

Many constabularies are aware of the poorly worded guidance but must adhere to it and getting them to condition a 375 for deer can be asking too much especially when you may have other calibres that are deer legal already. It is an often unknown fact that prior to the last firearms atrocity, a number of small changes to the guidance were being considered, one of them being the possession of expanding ammunition for zeroing with large calibres without the need for them to be conditioned for game in this country which would have solved much of the problem - unfortunately due to the uproar after the incident, all proposed amendments were dropped leaving us as we are now. As some of you may remember, when questioned, David Cameron was adamant that there would be no changes to the firearms licensing procedures, he was telling the truth.

HME

 

[palmer_mike]

Does a-max come in .375?

 

[tackb]

Does a-max come in .375?

 

[palmer_mike]

It was tongue in cheek, but might it be a way around the problem? I suppose if the bullets were available in .375 then they could be used to zero here as they are target ammo, although terminal ballistics might be ok for use on some game?

ps, just checked don't think they come in that calibre