444m in 45-70 moderator

I think that's true for a roebuck in Scotland, certainly - but has the law changed for stags?
Yeah, brought the minimum weight down didn't they.

**Just saw Heym's reply, what he said. 22-250 can get there according to data, but he is right that if one really wanted to do it for whatever reason you'd need a faster twist, and a larger case would be sensible.**
 
There is no UK deer that can survive a chest shot with a subsonic 4570 bullet, a patched round ball rifle, a 410 slug or a 22 hornet.
I think you're stretching things to make your point here (admittedly a difficult temptation to resist!).
"Survive", for example. True in general, but we want our projectiles to do more than merely kill deer: we want to give them a quick, humane death, and for them to be recoverable from close to the strike site.
Then there's "chest shot". We just had a frank and interesting write-up on here of a muntjac that received a chest shot that was (probably) brisket-only, resulting in a deer that remained too mobile to be recovered. Did it survive? We don't know, because that particular chest shot didn't achieve the desired outcomes of a quick, humane kill and a simple recovery.
As for being overregulated by government, isn't a large part of the point here that Scottish regulations are looser than English ones (i.e., no minimum calibre), even though an apparently unintended consequence is the exclusion of large, slow, projectiles that require accurate range estimation or short engagement ranges.
Government may often be ignorant, but I'm sure we can agree that not all citizens are as sage as SD members, and that the wider the public, the higher the idiot quotient. It's conceivable that at least some laws are drafted with this in mind.
 
I think you're stretching things to make your point here (admittedly a difficult temptation to resist!).
"Survive", for example. True in general, but we want our projectiles to do more than merely kill deer: we want to give them a quick, humane death, and for them to be recoverable from close to the strike site.
Then there's "chest shot". We just had a frank and interesting write-up on here of a muntjac that received a chest shot that was (probably) brisket-only, resulting in a deer that remained too mobile to be recovered. Did it survive? We don't know, because that particular chest shot didn't achieve the desired outcomes of a quick, humane kill and a simple recovery.
As for being overregulated by government, isn't a large part of the point here that Scottish regulations are looser than English ones (i.e., no minimum calibre), even though an apparently unintended consequence is the exclusion of large, slow, projectiles that require accurate range estimation or short engagement ranges.
Government may often be ignorant, but I'm sure we can agree that not all citizens are as sage as SD members, and that the wider the public, the higher the idiot quotient. It's conceivable that at least some laws are drafted with this in mind.
Good points but the munty in question was shot with masses of energy enyet it escaped so more isn't necessarily better.
I don't know the details as I have not read about it.

Chit happens, shoot enough and something will go wrong. That can not be dialed out through legislation.
If I had my way the law would say so many practice rounds a month to retain a license!
 
Good points but the munty in question was shot with masses of energy yet it escaped so more isn't necessarily better.
Thanks. In my previous post, I was simply taking issue with the implication that all "chest shots" are equal. If you clip the brisket, it is still a chest shot, but - as you say - the striking energy - greater or lesser - may not matter much.
 
Thanks. In my previous post, I was simply taking issue with the implication that all "chest shots" are equal. If you clip the brisket, it is still a chest shot, but - as you say - the striking energy - greater or lesser - may not matter much.
Yes ok. I did in fact have that happen on a fox and it survived. Until I bumped into it a month later.
On the whole though it is a pretty safe bet no?
 
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