Claret_Dabbler
Well-Known Member
Irishgun, is your current dog called Sika??
If so, did she get the bell I sent for christmas last year?
If so, did she get the bell I sent for christmas last year?
6.5 x 284, 7 x 284
- Thread starter Highlander
- Start date
ejg said:
Yes it did! I sent you an e-mail. You didn't get it? I thought you were busy working and hadn't gotten around to answering it. Thanks again, btw, and totally unnecessary to send it off.
As to your question, I think that with similar calibers/cartridges, there are some instances of overlapping performance. The trio you spoke of is no different. The 284 and the 280 are definitely in the same class with case capacities within a half a cc of each other. The 7-08 is about a full cc smaller than the 280. At some point, with some powders, case capacity becomes moot: You just can't burn the powder you carry efficiently if the case is too large: You either blow unburned powder out the barrel or you generate too high a pressure depending on the particulars of bullet weight and burn rate. The 7-08 will toss some heavy bullets (160-ish) as fast as the 284 and 280 if slow powders are used. This illustrates the cartridge's relative efficiency. In a nut shell, I'd compare the 7-08 to the 284 or 280 as the relationship between the 308 and the 30-06.
One thing that I've personally found with the 7-08 is that the accuracy is generally good all across the spectrum of bullet weights where as the 284 seemed to like 145- 154 grains and the 280 Remington liked same but doted on the 160's as well. Again, each cartridge exhibiting it's nature by demanding certain powders (to be paired with it's volumetric capacity) for each bullet weight to assure top accuracy and performance. The 7-08 seemed not to care much what it was fed. ~Muir
7mm08 remington
A few years ago a guy on PFS (a place i used to frequent) bought a browning A bolt in 7mm08. He put up a post looking for data for it. i had never heard of the calibre so i started to have a look at the data. i was amazed by the performance on paper. The round produced 2950fps with 145 gr bullet. this was with 51 gr of re19. my .30-06 produces similar speeds with 60 gr of imr 4350. there is not much energy difference at all. with lighter bullets of 120-130 gr the round produces performance similar to .270 win.
so i decided that i ought to have one. i bought a remmy model 7. maybe not the best choice and on reflection i, maybe, would have chosen a standard 700 with a longer barrel. I loaded the 145 gr speer hotcor over 50 gr of re19. the accuracy for this load is not what i would have hoped. only about 2 inches at 100 yards. however it is FANTASTIC on deer. there is, however a massive muzzle flash; i wonder how much powder is actually being burned in the 18 inch barrell?
After talking to some guys on the american forums i have decided to come down in bullet wieght and faster in burn rate. i have a tub of H4895 and i will be using either sierras 120 gr spitzer or speers 130gr btsp.
muir, what do you think of the home baked logic of coming down the wieght and up the burn rate to get better performance from the short barrel?
7mm08 is a great round, i would recommend it to anyone who wanted to buy a deer rifle. you can size up .243 brass or size down .308 win brass. I have some really cool nickel plated .308 brass.
swampy (7mm lover)
A few years ago a guy on PFS (a place i used to frequent) bought a browning A bolt in 7mm08. He put up a post looking for data for it. i had never heard of the calibre so i started to have a look at the data. i was amazed by the performance on paper. The round produced 2950fps with 145 gr bullet. this was with 51 gr of re19. my .30-06 produces similar speeds with 60 gr of imr 4350. there is not much energy difference at all. with lighter bullets of 120-130 gr the round produces performance similar to .270 win.
so i decided that i ought to have one. i bought a remmy model 7. maybe not the best choice and on reflection i, maybe, would have chosen a standard 700 with a longer barrel. I loaded the 145 gr speer hotcor over 50 gr of re19. the accuracy for this load is not what i would have hoped. only about 2 inches at 100 yards. however it is FANTASTIC on deer. there is, however a massive muzzle flash; i wonder how much powder is actually being burned in the 18 inch barrell?
After talking to some guys on the american forums i have decided to come down in bullet wieght and faster in burn rate. i have a tub of H4895 and i will be using either sierras 120 gr spitzer or speers 130gr btsp.
muir, what do you think of the home baked logic of coming down the wieght and up the burn rate to get better performance from the short barrel?
7mm08 is a great round, i would recommend it to anyone who wanted to buy a deer rifle. you can size up .243 brass or size down .308 win brass. I have some really cool nickel plated .308 brass.
swampy (7mm lover)
Claret_Dabbler
Well-Known Member
Swampy, good points.
I did quite a lot of research recently as I am planning a 6.5.
When you compare the reloading charts for the 6.5x284 compared to the 260rem, the 284 case burns a lot more powder, for a small increase in velocity.
The difference might be enough to be important shooting paper at 1000 yards, but I can't see it is relevant shooting fallow at 100-150yards.
I did quite a lot of research recently as I am planning a 6.5.
When you compare the reloading charts for the 6.5x284 compared to the 260rem, the 284 case burns a lot more powder, for a small increase in velocity.
The difference might be enough to be important shooting paper at 1000 yards, but I can't see it is relevant shooting fallow at 100-150yards.
Gad! I love it when sensible folk take a unvarnished look at caliber choices!
CD: Exactly.
Swampy: It makes a great amount of sense if you are dealing with a short barrel. The quicker the powder, the more you will burn in the tube instead of that fireball ahead of the muzzle. I took a look at a burning rate chart I copied and in a 107-powder list, from fastest to slowest, 4350 is number 87. H-4895 is number 67 so you are moving in the right direction there. Another great benefit to H-4895 is that you can safely load it to 3/5 of maximum... should you ever want to reduce loads. I really like it for an "all around" powder.
In that Remington's short barrel you will be giving away some velocity unless you got to an extremely quick powder but then you run amok with loading density and powder column shape. (A loose wad of quick-burning powder can lay at any which way in the case which can affect the burn rate to some degree, which would play havoc with your uniformity/accuracy.) My 7-08 custom sported a 23.5" barrel so I could squeeze a lot of juice out of even 4831. It was rebarreled eventually but I think I'd like to barrel one of my small ring Model 1910 Mausers into the same configuration. It was a sweet shooter.
BTW: I have used that Speer 145 grain on deer in my sevens. My 7x57 loves it and it will kill deer like a clap of thunder! ~Muir
CD: Exactly.
Swampy: It makes a great amount of sense if you are dealing with a short barrel. The quicker the powder, the more you will burn in the tube instead of that fireball ahead of the muzzle. I took a look at a burning rate chart I copied and in a 107-powder list, from fastest to slowest, 4350 is number 87. H-4895 is number 67 so you are moving in the right direction there. Another great benefit to H-4895 is that you can safely load it to 3/5 of maximum... should you ever want to reduce loads. I really like it for an "all around" powder.
In that Remington's short barrel you will be giving away some velocity unless you got to an extremely quick powder but then you run amok with loading density and powder column shape. (A loose wad of quick-burning powder can lay at any which way in the case which can affect the burn rate to some degree, which would play havoc with your uniformity/accuracy.) My 7-08 custom sported a 23.5" barrel so I could squeeze a lot of juice out of even 4831. It was rebarreled eventually but I think I'd like to barrel one of my small ring Model 1910 Mausers into the same configuration. It was a sweet shooter.
BTW: I have used that Speer 145 grain on deer in my sevens. My 7x57 loves it and it will kill deer like a clap of thunder! ~Muir
Muir,
sorry I didn't get your mail. But that's our fault, our village is getting the drainage system sorted and the broadband is in tatters because they are chopping all sorts of lines in the process. Missed several mails.
We dropped 4 sika this morning, 1 x neck 270win 130gr, 1 neck 308 165gr, 1x neck 25-06 100gr, and 1 shoulder 25-06. All fell on the spot. The head of the 308 shot came off easy. A 7-08 would in my oppinion be the most sensible round for Ireland. (we don't have pigs)
Last question, how sensitiv is the 7-08 on twist rate? 120 - 160gr ?
edi
sorry I didn't get your mail. But that's our fault, our village is getting the drainage system sorted and the broadband is in tatters because they are chopping all sorts of lines in the process. Missed several mails.
We dropped 4 sika this morning, 1 x neck 270win 130gr, 1 neck 308 165gr, 1x neck 25-06 100gr, and 1 shoulder 25-06. All fell on the spot. The head of the 308 shot came off easy. A 7-08 would in my oppinion be the most sensible round for Ireland. (we don't have pigs)
Last question, how sensitiv is the 7-08 on twist rate? 120 - 160gr ?
edi
7mm08 twists
The bullet wieghts you mention are smack in the middle of the mainstream 7mm08 range. they would be spot on. As for pigs, i think a 175gr speer grandslam at 2400fps would be more than adequate for pigs, infact i would think the 145's would be good at 2800+.
swampy
The bullet wieghts you mention are smack in the middle of the mainstream 7mm08 range. they would be spot on. As for pigs, i think a 175gr speer grandslam at 2400fps would be more than adequate for pigs, infact i would think the 145's would be good at 2800+.
swampy
Thar
Well-Known Member
irishgun said:
I agree with everything you say there, not only about the ability of the 6.5X55 but also that it is best suited to lighter bullets.
John
This months Shooting sports page 32, Sako 156gn factory ammo though a 22 ½” T3 barrel only made 2300fps, not deer legal in Scotland.
Best rgds
Tahr
All those deer! Just a good string of luck, I guess.~Muir
JAYB
Super Moderator
Thar said:irishgun said:
I agree with everything you say there, not only about the ability of the 6.5X55 but also that it is best suited to lighter bullets.
John
This months Shooting sports page 32, Sako 156gn factory ammo though a 22 ½” T3 barrel only made 2300fps, not deer legal in Scotland.
Best rgds
Tahr
Now, you know as well as I do that 160 grain bullets can be loaded fast enough to meet the legal requirement in Scotland. You just can't let it go can you, tell the truth really you dream of a 6.5X55 don't you, there are erotic fantasies at work here isn't there, go on you can tell us
Irish I take it all these cock ups you have seen with the 6.5 are down to the calibre and nothing to do with the person pulling the trigger
John
Especially in Ireland we have the problem of very limited bullet choice.
For my 22-250 they sell fed blue box in my area that's it. 223 maybe 2 types. For the 6.5x55 they had lapua 156gr mega lately sold all over Ireland. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what happens with a classic low heart shot taken with this slow speed round and a bullet designed for elk. I've seen it, sika and fallow does just have a tiny hole in and out. Deer is dead, later. No good for larger scale culling, one spends more time running after deer.
Similar could happen with a 308 if you use a heavy bullet designed for deep penetration, but at least the hole would be bigger.
A fella I sometimes shoot with has this combination, I've never seen him drop anything on the spot. He told me several times about a "miss" ??
Plane and simple wrong bullet for the job.
If he had been advised to get a 308 he would have been better off.
A 308 with a wrong bullet at 2800 fps kills better than a 6.5 with a wrong bullet at 2400fps.
It does not matter what excuse we hear now, like shot placement and so on, it won't help. It's about statistics, 1000 deer shot how far do they run, that is the question.
Bullet choice??? in Ireland we get what they decide to sell us, no choice, no reloading. Many shoot with target bullets.
I ask myself what would I advise to a newcomer und these conditions.
It would not be the swede. Anything but.
edi
For my 22-250 they sell fed blue box in my area that's it. 223 maybe 2 types. For the 6.5x55 they had lapua 156gr mega lately sold all over Ireland. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what happens with a classic low heart shot taken with this slow speed round and a bullet designed for elk. I've seen it, sika and fallow does just have a tiny hole in and out. Deer is dead, later. No good for larger scale culling, one spends more time running after deer.
Similar could happen with a 308 if you use a heavy bullet designed for deep penetration, but at least the hole would be bigger.
A fella I sometimes shoot with has this combination, I've never seen him drop anything on the spot. He told me several times about a "miss" ??
Plane and simple wrong bullet for the job.
If he had been advised to get a 308 he would have been better off.
A 308 with a wrong bullet at 2800 fps kills better than a 6.5 with a wrong bullet at 2400fps.
It does not matter what excuse we hear now, like shot placement and so on, it won't help. It's about statistics, 1000 deer shot how far do they run, that is the question.
Bullet choice??? in Ireland we get what they decide to sell us, no choice, no reloading. Many shoot with target bullets.
I ask myself what would I advise to a newcomer und these conditions.
It would not be the swede. Anything but.
edi
ejg you may get out more or get a new RFD ,i was at my dealer friend yesterday eve and we shot 3 types of 270 ammo out of the 6 types he has ,he has 6.5 in 120gr B tips norma ,150 B tip 308 this guy kills a lot of sika also and knows what it takes to do the job .shot placement is one thing but good bullet is as important .i brought a friend out for a stag he was using a blazer 30 06 .the dog pointed into a clearence from the track we were on, so we came into it from above sure enough a sika stag was smelling about .he was walking slowly at no more that 60 yards .i gave the go a head and the shot was fired ,the stag ran head up for a thicket crop .feck what happened there i seen the deer take the bullet on the chest ,side on ,but his reaction was wrong, for 70 yards he went like a train head up slowing as he made the cover i sent the dog. when we found the stag he was dead with a happy dog pulling out of him a 100 yards from where he was shot ,turns out my friend was using 180 gr hammer heads in and out two pin holes .how if this animal was shot on the edge of woodland by some one with out a dog and a spotter it looked like a missejg said:
Well. There is certainly no accounting for the use of unsuitable bullets. No handloading... I couldn't live with that! As JayB says, it is easy enough to load the 6.5 up with heavier bullets and meet a 2400 fps level. I have done it many times. It it sometimes difficult to do with an issue Swede having a less than "issue" length barrel due to the generous groove dimensions of many of the Gustav-built barrels but in a 23" sporter it can be done.~Muir
This is an interesting thread,I would have expected that the 6.5x55 would have been enough for large deer,I know they use it in Scandinavia,the same way that we use the .243,as a bottom rung,entry level calibre,but was surprised to see that it doesn't have legs enough to drop sika reliably!
In honesty though,this is why I bought a .308, to deal with the larger deer species when the opportunity arises.
In honesty though,this is why I bought a .308, to deal with the larger deer species when the opportunity arises.
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