7.62x54R

[Andy RV]

The Russians are still using Mosin PU snipers in Ukraine today!

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Hmmm.
I thought that after reportedly being pinned down in Afghanistan by “ragheads” (as they were fondly known) using Mosin Nagants circa 1891 design, a decision would have to be taken (after the usual many years of obfuscation) to scale up the standard and comparatively puny 5.56 to a meatier chambering. The .270 will certainly give them the necessary reach and as for the .338 magnum…….

Indeed, that's no small part of the reasoning behind the choices - but the reality is that it's a "luxury" option, offering some real advantages to the sharpest of sharp-end users, and relatively little anywhere else.

Although I am confirmed lover of small arms, military and civilian, the fact remains that most of the killing is achieved by support weapons, and even where infantry weapons are used with lethal intent, the majority of rounds expended are neither expected nor required to have a marksman-like accuracy in order to be effective.

Not that I want to come across as too cynical here either, because for the soldiers with the skill and opportunity (or occasion) to exploit the additional accuracy, barrier penetration and terminal effect, they will be no doubt be grateful. In all likelihood in years to come, there will some who have cause to say or believe that they owe their lives to the extra capability, but the reality is that innovations like these will rarely if ever influence the outcome of a battle, much less a war.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Indeed, that's no small part of the reasoning behind the choices - but the reality is that it's a "luxury" option, offering some real advantages to the sharpest of sharp-end users, and relatively little anywhere else.

Although I am confirmed lover of small arms, military and civilian, the fact remains that most of the killing is achieved by support weapons, and even where infantry weapons are used with lethal intent, the majority of rounds expended are neither expected nor required to have a marksman-like accuracy in order to be effective.

Not that I want to come across as too cynical here either, because for the soldiers with the skill and opportunity (or occasion) to exploit the additional accuracy, barrier penetration and terminal effect, they will be no doubt be grateful. In all likelihood in years to come, there will some who have cause to say or believe that they owe their lives to the extra capability, but the reality is that innovations like these will rarely if ever influence the outcome of a battle, much less a war.

Yep. Plus ca change…

 

[viking90]

Compared to 303 and 8x57 I don't see many other people here in the UK use it on the deer. I'd go so far as to say most stalkers I've spoken to have never even heard of it before

 

[Smellydog]

Compared to 303 and 8x57 I don't see many other people here in the UK use it on the deer. I'd go so far as to say most stalkers I've spoken to have never even heard of it before

View attachment 379727

In the distant past somewhere I'm sure a sporting rifle was chambered in it for a short time. Possibly a ruger#1???

 

[KimE]

In the distant past somewhere I'm sure a sporting rifle was chambered in it for a short time. Possibly a ruger#1???

Baikal IZH94 combination gun were avialable 7,62*54r and 12g.

 

[Dougal McGuire]

Winchester Model 1895, though they were for military contract.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Winchester Model 1895, though they were for military contract.

Many, even perhaps most, of these ended up in Finnish service. There are some pictures on the net of Finnish soldiers using these 1895s during the Second World War.

 

[Laurie]

In the distant past somewhere I'm sure a sporting rifle was chambered in it for a short time. Possibly a ruger#1???

Winchester M1895 apart, and maybe Ruger #1 (rings a faint bell - Sturm Ruger definitely did the similar 303) the US Government ended up saddled with large numbers Mosins which (Remington?) had produced under an Imperial Russian contract in WW1. When the Bolsheviks seized control in the 1917 revolution, the new Soviet government reneged on the deal and refused to accept any, or make further payments. As Remington was a key US military arms supplier, the US government picked up the tab to keep the company solvent.

The Mosins were stored for many years, but eventually released to the American shooting public during the depression years and many became vital meat suppliers for struggling families in these hard times. The NRA Rifleman and other publications ran illustrated features on 'how to sporterise your Mosin', but many were used as built for military issue. Horribly long for woodland stalking, and a ghastly safety release and heavy trigger-pull. Gun Digest Annual had a feature on these rifles some years back illustrated with pics of reworked examples. 'Agricultural, ugly, horrible' would be a stalking rifle aficionado's typical adjectives in their responses I'd reckon!

There was a nickname for the genre IIRC. @alberta boy might remember this moniker.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Winchester M1895 apart, and maybe Ruger #1 (rings a faint bell - Sturm Ruger definitely did the similar 303) the US Government ended up saddled with large numbers Mosins which (Remington?) had produced under an Imperial Russian contract in WW1. When the Bolsheviks seized control in the 1917 revolution, the new Soviet government reneged on the deal and refused to accept any, or make further payments. As Remington was a key US military arms supplier, the US government picked up the tab to keep the company solvent.

The Mosins were stored for many years, but eventually released to the American shooting public during the depression years and many became vital meat suppliers for struggling families in these hard times. The NRA Rifleman and other publications ran illustrated features on 'how to sporterise your Mosin', but many were used as built for military issue. Horribly long for woodland stalking, and a ghastly safety release and heavy trigger-pull. Gun Digest Annual had a feature on these rifles some years back illustrated with pics of reworked examples. 'Agricultural, ugly, horrible' would be a stalking rifle aficionado's typical adjectives in their responses I'd reckon!

There was a nickname for the genre IIRC. @alberta boy might remember this moniker.

Pretty much spot on though Westinghouse were in the mix too - a fascinating part of arms manufacture history…
Incidentally, 10 years ago I met a chap in Pa who was introduced as “Mosin Tom” - of course I fell for it and asked him why - in short he had every version manufactured and when pressed by me on numbers admitted that “last time I counted” it was about 120 “but that was 6 months ago!”.
In my view horticultural as they may be they are seriously underrated rifles which at that time could be bought in a crate of 20 with bayonets, cleaning kits, slings and 2x450 (?) rounds held securely in sardine-style cans all for the princely sum of $1000 US!
I am the proud possessor of the Mosin Tee shirt made especially for the Cosmoline Curio Collectors Pa get together - the only one in captivity this side of the Pond..

God bless the USA…

From Wiki..
“With the start of World War I, production was restricted to the M1891 dragoon and infantry models for the sake of simplicity. Due to the desperate shortage of arms and the shortcomings of a still-developing domestic industry, the Russian government ordered 1.5 million M1891 infantry rifles from Remington Arms and another 1.8 million from New England Westinghouse Company in the United States in 1915.[11] Remington produced 750,000 rifles before production was halted by the 1917 October Revolution. Deliveries to Russia had amounted to 469,951 rifles when the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk ended hostilities between the Central Powers and now Soviet-Russia. Henceforth, the new Bolshevik government of Vladimir Lenincancelled payments to the American companies manufacturing the Mosin–Nagant (Russia had not paid for the order at any time throughout the Great War).

Arkhangelsk, Russia, November 20, 1918. The U.S. 339th Infantry Regiment, equipped with Mosin-Nagant rifles, is inspected by British General Edmund Ironside, commander of the North Russia intervention Force.
With Remington and Westinghouse on the precipice of bankruptcy from the Communists' decision, the remaining 280,000 rifles were purchased by the United States Army. American and British expeditionary forces of the North Russia Campaign were armed with these rifles and sent to Murmansk and Arkhangelsk in the late summer of 1918 to prevent the large quantities of munitions delivered for Tsarist forces from being captured by the Central Powers. Remaining rifles were used for the training of U.S. Army troops. Some were used to equip U.S. National Guard, SATC, and ROTC units.[18] Designated "U.S. Rifle, 7.62mm, Model of 1916", these are among the rarest of American service arms. In 1917, 50,000 rifles were sent via Vladivostok to the Czechoslovak Legions in Siberia to aid in their attempt to secure passage to France.”.
As you might expect, though not in the same league as Mosin Tom I do have a couple…

 

[viking90]

I have to confess, as much as I'm a lover of the 54r (it's the only cartridge I genuinely have have a passion for) the mosin doesn't totally float my boat. I like the izzy made PU snipers but off the top of my head the only bolt action for me would be the SV98. I much prefer the self loading offerings