A mate just had an interesting home visit for his renewal. A few areas of concern.

[saddler]

Seems that his force do things a little differently??

1. The WPC (FEO?) turned up in a marked POLICE car in full uniform. She also brought a male colleague, also in uniform - supposedly being trained for the job.

2. She counted every single round of ammunition he had in the safe

3. She seized his Solid Slug ammo & said his S.1/FAC shotgun slot is being instantly revoked

4. She refused/questioned his application for a .577/450 rifle as "it's extremely powerful/dangerous" and asked if he had "received any formal training or experience in using that caliber"

5. She heavily queried his application for a LBR -again - asking if he had used one.
He even pointed out that it's NOT legal to use one in the UK without a slot on the FAC = she refuted his statement as incorrect

6. He asked about the options of either having the components for an AR15 upper build added to his FAC individually, or added then passed to an RFD for the final assembly.
Her reply was that such demands could well see someone smashing his door in to raid him for illegal activity...


There were a few other comments and such of a similar nature.
He's not in any associations, so I'm getting a few pointers together for him so he can fire in an email/complaint

 

[deerstalker.308]

Did he have authority to possess the slugs? If not the rest is somewhat moot

 

[Stalker62]

1. The WPC (FEO?) turned up in a marked POLICE car in full uniform. She also brought a male colleague, also in uniform - supposedly being trained for the job.

No issue.

2. She counted every single round of ammunition he had in the safe

No issue.

3. She seized his Solid Slug ammo & said his S12 shotgun slot is being instantly revoked

S12 shotgun?

4. She refused his application for a .577/450 rifle as "it's extremely powerful/dangerous" and asked if he "had any formal training or experience in using that caliber"

Issue.

5. She heavily queried his application for a LBR -again - asking if he had used one.
He even pointed out that it's NOT legal to use one in the UK without a slot on the FAC = she refuted his statement as incorrect

Issue (minor)

6. He asked about the options of either having the components for an AR15 upper build added to his FAC individually, or added then passed to an RFD for the final assembly.
Her reply was that such demands could well see someone smashing his door in to raid him for illegal activity...

Not sure I understand the 'issue"

There were a few other comments and such of a similar nature.
He's not in any associations, so I'm getting a few pointers together for him so he can fire in an email/complaint

I think sending in a polite email seeking 'clarification' on all the points raised is the way to go.

 

[saddler]

Did he have authority to possess the slugs? If not the rest is somewhat moot

Yes - full permission for 12-ga slug on his FAC - and bought legally

 

[Highfield]

if his fac was instantly revoked surly they siezed all his guns and ammo?

 

[gixer1]

if his fac was instantly revoked surly they siezed all his guns and ammo?

He said the slot….not the FAC, which is odd….I’m not sure they can revoke a slot “instantly” without taking he cert away.

All sounds a bit odd….will it be on field-sports TV??

 

[Highfield]

He said the slot….not the FAC, which is odd….I’m not sure they can revoke a slot “instantly” without taking he cert away.

All sounds a bit odd….will it be on field-sports TV??

ok missed that bit unless it was edited after i comented. it does sound odd. i dont think that it is very sensible for folks to post tales of there specific cases on the net or web tv i dout it helps there cases

 

[Andyquadra]

I think I'd have started recording the conversation

 

[saddler]

ok missed that bit unless it was edited after i comented. it does sound odd. i dont think that it is very sensible for folks to post tales of there specific cases on the net or web tv i dout it helps there cases

Posted here to gauge opinion of how this was handled by the "FEO"
Seems to be a few question marks that warrant wider broadcast in case this is a policy change with that force area

 

[long_range_rob]

.577/450 too powerful? 1900 ft/lbs at the muzzle so we’ll below .308

I suspect the unfortunate lads had been given the info and sent off without any real knowledge

 

[VSS]

It all sounds a bit unlikely. Is your mate given to exaggeration? It can be hard for some people to resist turning the story of a minor quibble into a full-blown row when recounting it afterwards.

 

[saddler]

It all sounds a bit unlikely. Is your mate given to exaggeration? It can be hard for some people to resist turning the story of a minor quibble into a full-blown row when recounting it afterwards.

Far from it
He's in a bit of a shock/panic state - and he's well qualified in the topic matter as he's a JNCO Armourer

 

[Sinistral]

Seems that his force do things a little differently??

5. She heavily queried his application for a LBR -again - asking if he had used one.
He even pointed out that it's NOT legal to use one in the UK without a slot on the FAC = she refuted his statement as incorrect

He may be aware of this, but the main difficulty in owning an LBR is that use of it is only permitted by the FAC holder.
It can only be used at a Home Office Approved Club, but HOACs themselves can only be licensed for fullbore, rimfire, pistol-calibre rifles, and BP handguns.
As I understand it, an HOAC can't have an LBR on their Club FAC.
Club members can shoot firearms of the preceding 4 types belonging to any club member at club sessions under Section 15, but they aren't allowed to touch an LBR.
That's for the exclusive use of the person who has it on his ticket.

 

[ColinJ]

An individual FEO does not have the authority to refuse or revoke. They make recommendations to a manager who normally has devolved authority from the Chief Office of that force area to make decisions.
As a former FEO I am confused by the action around the solid slug. There has to be more to it. Had the decision already been taken by a manager? On what grounds?

 

[One on top of two]

Straight onto firearms manager in morning and request a meeting with CC . If he is legit he should push back just as hard .
I hope your mate gets a happy ending though.

 

[saddler]

He may be aware of this, but the main difficulty in owning an LBR is that use of it is only permitted by the FAC holder.
It can only be used at a Home Office Approved Club, but HOACs themselves can only be licensed for fullbore, rimfire, pistol-calibre rifles, and BP handguns.
As I understand it, an HOAC can't have an LBR on their Club FAC.
Club members can shoot firearms of the preceding 4 types belonging to any club member at club sessions under Section 15, but they aren't allowed to touch an LBR.
That's for the exclusive use of the person who has it on his ticket.

YIP - he's very aware/switch on to the laws & all the vagaries of the Acts...
The quote of what you posted is exactly what he told the WPC - she refuted his statement as "you are wrong there, as long as someone is supervising you"...!

 

[saddler]

An individual FEO does not have the authority to refuse or revoke. They make recommendations to a manager who normally has devolved authority from the Chief Office of that force area to make decisions.
As a former FEO I am confused by the action around the solid slug. There has to be more to it. Had the decision already been taken by a manager? On what grounds?

He had zero prior warning of this and no written notification of the slug being seized or the FAC shotgun slot being removed

To add, the previous club he was in DID run S.1 shotgun events - our present main club doesn't - so I am fixing this aspect by getting him in a relevant association.
It was that fact that the ammo seizure/S.1 slot revocation was purely verbal & with zero prior notice that I found odd

I've also never heard of the renewal visit seeing EVERY round of ammo being counted out....they must really have a lot of time on their hands

 

[Triggermortis]

What is an LBR?

 

[long_range_rob]

What is an LBR?

Long Barreled Revolver

 

[Liveonce]

As I understand it, an HOAC can't have an LBR on their Club FAC.

this is correct, a club i was a member of was granted LBP on their club certificate, they even purchased a firearm, later the firearms manger detected the error and the firearm, pistol was then confiscated by the police.