Accuracy with (Non AR) bolt action 6.5 x 55 Grendel?

[Howa]

Hoping for some response to my thread although I know this calibre is relatively small in numbers in the UK.

I'm confined to using Ramshot X-Terminator and Tac for reloading this calibre, cases are either Lapua or PPU improved, have tried various primers, mainly CCI.
I've tried a variety of bullets varying from Lapua Scenar 100gr, Matchking 107gr, Matchking 120gr, Matchking 123gr and very strangely PPU 120gr which has performed very well.
The range is indoor so no wind etc, only error is myself, the distance is 100 yards, I obtain occasionally below 1" groups, as low as 0.70" up to 1.3" groups, but consistency does seem to vary, I have cleaned the barrell.
Can any users pass on their results for this calibre, I can then see if I'm at the best that I can get or should I be expecting better results?
Any views on the powder I am using would be helpful too, it's extremely difficult to get some powders due un-availability at my local supplier, but if a different powder could be identified I could try to obtain it.

 

[User00040]

Think you mean 6.5 Grendel?

Think @Laurie has/had a Howa Mini in an Oryx chassis.

A wee secret with regards to powder choice, Hodgdon's slightly slower kissing cousin of CFE223, LeverEvolution...

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Some questions.
Are you testing using a rear bag?
Are you testing using a target that allows you to aim precisely?
Are you using the recommended powder?
Is it a quality barrel?
Who put the barrel on?
Which action is it?
Have you tried another scope?
Regards
JCS

 

[Howa]

Using a rear bag and stand.
Target - yes.
I believe so, a heavy barrelled CZ Grendel model.
Other queries, don't believe the scope is at fault.

 

[Muir]

I have the CZ heavy and American in Grendel. Stop cleaning the barrel. ** Trim and crimp if you're not already. TAC should be a go to. Are you seating to specified OAL? Have you annealed the cases?
A thought: Are you using the set trigger? If so, stop. ~Muir

(** I don't think I've ever cleaned either of mine. )

 

[dave 67]

Inherently accurate cartridge based on the 6PPC, had one in an AR platform and tried BLC2 then had more success with Accurate 2520 which changed to lovex but can’t remember which one.
Laurie I’m sure will chip in with some info if he picks up on this thread

 

[Howa]

I have the CZ heavy and American in Grendel. Stop cleaning the barrel. ** Trim and crimp if you're not already. TAC should be a go to. Are you seating to specified OAL? Have you annealed the cases?
A thought: Are you using the set trigger? If so, stop. ~Muir

(** I don't think I've ever cleaned either of mine. )

I only cleaned mine a week ago, I believe accuracy may have fallen off a bit afterwards?
I'm seating to 2.250" , not annealed cases as they have had only a few firings.
No to set trigger, I've adjusted it.

What I'm interested in is what sort of accuracy I can obtain with optimum conditions and loading?
I have got down to 0.70" groups, the last few have widened out, is this cleaning the barrel or am I at the optimum groupings I can expect from this rifle.

What is your CZ heavy giving you with regards to groups please?

 

[Howa]

Inherently accurate cartridge based on the 6PPC, had one in an AR platform and tried BLC2 then had more success with Accurate 2520 which changed to lovex but can’t remember which one.
Laurie I’m sure will chip in with some info if he picks up on this thread

I hope so as Muir and Laurie were most helpful when I first bought the rifle.
I believe from memory that Laurie has the Hornady Oryx Grendel, to know his groups would be very interesting.

 

[Y85]

I’ve got a fair bit of experience with the 6.5Gr in semi-autos and bolt guns (CZ-527, 16”bbl). Normally, it is a fantastically accurate round and really punches above its weight, performance-wise. I’m traveling and don’t have my data in front of me (returning from SCI — sensory overload) but once I get home I will attach my reloading spreadsheet for the bolt gun. As I said, usually quite accurate w 100gr Paritions, 99gr Hammer hunters, and 123gr SSTs, easily 3/4MOA out to 400yds. And, I’ve seen whitetail (up to 250lbs) and blacktail drop routinely with 1 shot.

I’ll post the reload data as soon as I can. (Since I live in North America, I feel the need to say, please start low, and mind pressure signs — my loads are on the warm side.)

 

[Muir]

What I'm interested in is what sort of accuracy I can obtain with optimum conditions and loading?
I have got down to 0.70" groups, the last few have widened out, is this cleaning the barrel or am I at the optimum groupings I can expect from this rifle.

What is your CZ heavy giving you with regards to groups please?

Half MOA. easily. I use Lovex D073.6, S&B primer, seated to bullet maker's recommendation in annealed cases trimmed to the same length and crimped. FL resize, always. ~Muir

 

[Howa]

I’ve got a fair bit of experience with the 6.5Gr in semi-autos and bolt guns (CZ-527, 16”bbl). Normally, it is a fantastically accurate round and really punches above its weight, performance-wise. I’m traveling and don’t have my data in front of me (returning from SCI — sensory overload) but once I get home I will attach my reloading spreadsheet for the bolt gun. As I said, usually quite accurate w 100gr Paritions, 99gr Hammer hunters, and 123gr SSTs, easily 3/4MOA out to 400yds. And, I’ve seen whitetail (up to 250lbs) and blacktail drop routinely with 1 shot.

I’ll post the reload data as soon as I can. (Since I live in North America, I feel the need to say, please start low, and mind pressure signs — my loads are on the warm side.)

Y85

That would be fantastic, thank you very much.
I believe that I can get sub 1" groups, it's narrowing down exactly components etc and reloading procedures.
Your info will be a great help.

 

[Howa]

Half MOA. easily. I use Lovex D073.6, S&B primer, seated to bullet maker's recommendation in annealed cases trimmed to the same length and crimped. FL resize, always. ~Muir

Thank you Muir,

Thanks for your input, I Think that I will have to start trying to obtain
Lovex D073.6, your other recommendations I can do.

 

[Y85]

So, I apologize as I am new to the forum. I could not figure out how to attach an Excel document (which is how I keep my reloading data). Here are the sheets as pdfs. I hate to sound like a broken record, but please start low and work up. The CZ_527 is a pretty strong action, at least compare to an AR-15, so these loads are warm. No pressure signs in my rifle.....but caveat emptor.
I will try to add a few more posts with references and sources for on-line data. If this works....
Once again, I apologize for being unable to figure out how to give you this by EXCEL.
If it is too difficult to read, just PM me and I will email the source file.
Best,
Blake

 

[Y85]

Ok, so good places to find good Grendel data.
1. Article by Lane Pearce in Shooting Times (intended for the AR-15 crowd, but Lane is very conservative and extremely meticulous).

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/65-grendel-load-data/99645

2. 65Grendel Forum_Reloading Threads.
(Unsolicited commentary on my part, there is a lot of good information here but I don't visit this forum much any more. As the States have become more politically polarized, the interactions have been increasingly strident.)

6.5 Grendel Ammunition & Reloading

Discuss 6.5 Grendel handloading data as well as official SAAMI 6.5 Grendel factory ammunition. Any new threads about specific bullets or powders should have that name in the title, otherwise add to existing threads dedicated to specific bullets or powders.

www.65grendel.com

3. Paul Scott wrote a couple of books on reloading the Grendel about 10-15yrs ago. A little dated, but Paul is very thorough

6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook Combo Volumes 1 & 2

Volume 1 & Volume 2 + 6.5 Grendel / 6mm AR Chamber Brushes Volume 1: AR-15 Reloading Basics Volume 2: Reloading for Hunting Two Pack of 6.5 Grendel / 6mm AR Chamber Brushes *** IMPORTANT *** SHIPS US Domestic (Includes Alaska & Hawaii)

www.ar15buildbox.com

 

[Y85]

Experential thoughts.
When I lived in the States, I built a number of ARs in 6.5Gr (some pics attached). Routinely, extremely accurate (pics also attached) and very potent hunting (example attached) rifles.
After I moved to Paradise (British Columbia), I was unable to hunt with AR's so I stayed away from the Grendel for a few years. Last winter, I bought the CZ527 (pic attached) and installed a light, 2.5-10x32scope for hunting here in the coastal rain forest where I live. The cover is very thick and the short (16"bbl) and light rifle and scope is perfect. (Results from this fall attached). (Please note, this is Canada -- that is a muzzle brake, not a suppressor.)

IMO (which ain't worth much), the 6.5G would be perfect for muntjac, CWD, and roe -- and completely adequate for fallow and sika. I know people who have taken elk with the Grendel, but I would not recommend it. I would not use it on an estate red deer but I might on a Scottish hill stag. If I were going for fallow or sika, I would use a monolithic (Barnes 115gr Tac-TX or 99/110gr Hammer Hunter). Similarly, I know a lot of people who hunt hogs with the Grendel and do so very effectively. If I were going after European boar, once again, I would use a monolithic -- and I would stick to head shots at sensible ranges. I would not use it on a driven hunt.

A couple of caveats, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Grendel on muntjac/CWD/roe at distance (out to 400 yds, with my handloads) -- and I have taken midwestern whitetail at that distance without issue. I would not go beyond 250 yards on fallow or sika. (Yeah, I know, the guys on-line always cite the 750yd pronghorn -- but, pronghorn are easy to kill, and (once again) IMO, that's not an ethical shot.) I'd keep the shots close on boar. Close enough to assure an accurate head shot. However, full disclosure, whilst I have a bit of experience with the 6 deer species in the UK, I have never used a 6.5Grendel to do so -- so, if I am wrong, please tell me and forgive me for unjustified hubris in making suggestions.

I am happy to run on for even longer, but I imagine I am boring folks.
Best,
Blake

 

[Y85]

and, I just learned that five pictures is the max.
Sorry.
Here's the Sikta blacktail from November.
I apologize for droning on.
Best,
Blake

 

[Howa]

Y85:

Thank you so much for the info.
I've just had a quick look, your reports are so detailed, fantastic.
I'll be sifting through to see what will help me.
Thanks also for the leads to on-line and book info.

 

[Howa]

Hi Blake, just looking at your latest post, very impressed by your 200 yard group using 123gr SST

ATB
Ray

 

[Y85]

Thanks, Ray. My grandfather always said, "Even a blind hog finds the trough now and again." Don't take that as typical of my ability.

 

[Heym SR20]

To the OP, even with a heavy barrel the little CZ is still quite a light rifle and I think has a pretty short stock. Light rifles can a do shoot well but technique is key to success. Change your body position, or even just the tension in your arms and shoulder and rifle will recoil differently. And yes recoil starts as soon as primer goes off. The bullet leaves as barrel is moving. You want it to leave at same point everytime. Groups going up and down in size is indicative of inconsistent technique.

Have a read of this excellent article

Hold that Forend!

Then get your rifle and then do lots of sessions of dry firing at a small target. If your cross hairs stay on target as the trigger is squeezed technique is good. When it works 10, 20 or 50 times in a row then you are getting somewhere.

Then get some ammo of known source, ideally good factory and shoot a group. Not 3 rounds but 10. Then you know your technique with that rifle is good.

Then try and improve it by tinkering with the ammo. But really sub MOA is pretty good and better than most can shoot.