Advice on shooting elk

Annoying as he is, he has consistently shown that an awful lot of people can’t shoot anywhere nearly as well as they think/claim they can.
If you look at Eric cortina’s 1moa hunting challenge it would seem most of the guy who achieve it are actually long range prs guys who actually shoot a lot. I think most hunters shoot 12 rounds a year and expect to be good at it? I mean I shoot 6-800rnds a year and I’m still pretty useless but perhaps that a personal thing lol.
 
My understanding is the 7mm Rem Mag and a 160 or 175gr partition is a classic combo for Elk. Not sure if it is ideal for 400m plus, but it will be interesting to see how far away from this combination he is!
I’d not be afraid to use a 7 mag shooting Handloaded Nosler 160 Partitions . To be honest I’d not be afraid to use my custom barreled 700 in 26 Nosler shooting Nosler 140 Partition handloads or the Nosler 140 AccuBond Handloaded provided I had more than a week to pick my shot .
 
This is pretty painful yikes

<Chuckle> We do something like that at 885yds (the limit of our nearby range) all the time. It isn't that hard if you can call the wind. We just do the single long range shot though (no walking it out, to get a gradual wind offset). Cold bore. Definitely separates the talkers from the do'ers.
 
I would far sooner guide someone shooting a 6.5 well than a .300 badly! And based on experience, the probability of the shot placement being bad seems to increase markedly as the calibre goes up. Best shot I’ve guided in recent times was shooting a 6mm Creedmoor. Absolutely surgical, and everything dropped in its shadow.

Is the correlation between increasing calibre size and increased groups linear ?

Or does it jump up at a typical point- somewhere around the magnum calibres (assuming average male sized shooter using a moderator).

The lack of moderator shooting elk would probably keep me away from the magnums unless I had plenty of experience and could use a muzzle break.

If I was fit enough to carry a heavy gun- I would certainly go up in calibre for a bit of redundancy - knowing the heavy calibre would tame any recoil concerns I had. A muzzle break and a slightly heavier rifle and I would want a magnum calibre personally.
 
A lot of good comments here but seems it went off track a little from the original OP's question.

Large Elk hunting at 400 yards or more is real wilderness hunting in Canada or in the Western USA, in my experience you can spend a week hunting in this type of environment and are very lucky to get one good opportunity at a suitable animal. The OP is smart to think that some of the shot opportunities could be 400 yard shots.

The OP asks if a 6.5 is a good choice of caliber to carry into this scenario. I commented earlier that I would select something bigger and that it would be a magnum caliber. I agree that a 6.5 can kill anything walking on the planet at 400 yards. However a good size Elk can be over 700 lbs or 300 kg, shooting at the range the OP describes, I would be much more comfortable with something larger than a 6.5.

Most hunters in the US and Canada are not considering suppressors for wilderness hunting and I would say that few have muzzle breaks. If you are firing one shot in a week of hunting the last thing you are worrying about is the noise or blast. As far as gun weight most magnums are similar in action to a .30-06 and may have a few more inches on the barrel, the weight difference is not that large, it's also a question of what else are you carrying on a remote wilderness hunt. You will not even feel the recoil when you fire that one shot that you have been waiting for all week.

I personally hunt North American big game, African plains game and African dangerous game with a range of larger calibers that I own, these include 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 9.3 x 62, 375 H&H and 500/416. In the UK I tend to limit my deer shooting to a .308 these days although I still hold a .338 WM on my ticket. It is certainly true to say that larger calibers have more recoil but that is something a shooter has to manage, I have shot a serious amount of long distance rifle from 300-1200 meters, I would argue that once you get to 400 yards and beyond the magnum rifle is actually going to be more accurate than a smaller caliber. Not too many military snipers shoot small calibers.

The key reason I would not be carrying a 6.5 would be my concern of wounding an animal, and not recovering it. The second reason for not carrying a 6.5 on a wilderness hunt is that dangerous animals such as brown / grizzly bear live in the exact territory that Elk live in, I want something heavier than a 6.5 to shoot a brown bear that is keen on eating me, my third and final reason for not carrying a 6.5 is that if you are in wilderness territory and may anticipate a 400 yard shot it may also be a possibility that the only shot you get is actually a 550 yard shot. I'm not supporting all these long distance shots but I'm saying you better know your rifle, how to shoot it well and how to shoot accurately over long distances if you are going on this type of hunt.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the sporting use of .338 WM:

"In North America, the .338 Winchester Magnum is most commonly used for the hunting of larger deer species such as elk and moose. It is quite popular with elk hunters, with bullets ranging between 200–225 gr (13.0–14.6 g) generally preferred for large class 3 game such as elk or moose.[10]

Apart from the larger deer species, the .338 Winchester Magnum is often used for the hunting of and defense against dangerous class 3 game, particularly the great bears including grizzly, polar and brown bears. It is often carried by fishermen, hunters and guides in Alaska and Canada for protection as encounters with these larger bear species can be common.[11][12]

The .338 Winchester Magnum can be considered a good all-round plains game hunting rifle in Africa. It has also been found to be effective against the big cats where hunting allows for the use of the cartridge.[citation needed]"

I shoot a lot of deer, I hunt UK, Europe, North America and Africa. I've shot a lot of animals from Eland down with a .338 WM at all sorts of distances, my personal view is you need to take something larger than a 6.5 to hunt large Elk at 400 yards in the Canadian wilderness. If you invite me I will be showing up with a minimum of .300 WM or my likely a .338 WM.

Good luck on your hunt.
 
Is the correlation between increasing calibre size and increased groups linear ?
Good question!

I don’t have data on that. I’m sure someone does - Litz or someone like that.

Thinking from first principles, my instinct would be that it’s most likely to be linear or possibly accelerating.
 
@UpNorthMI you above post is very informative

I wasn't going to say what I did on here as some are quick to judge, but your excellent post prompted me to.

My first bull Elk, open mountain, 225 yards broadside, stopped him by giving him a shout.

My second, in timber, it would occasionally show in clearings, I was across a valley, I used the same scope I had used for years, a fixed 8x56 Schmidt and Bender, I had practiced so much before I decided to travel across the pond out to 400 yards, used hold over and luckily very little wind, squeezed off, and hit it straight through the lungs, 445 yards

Some people don't appreciate where Elk live, or their size until you see both, so .30 Cal's are a good choice as my 30-06
 
I wasn't going to say what I did on here as some are quick to judge, but your excellent post prompted me to.

@devon deer stalker

I am glad you did say.

When folk do not post of their real hunting/stalking/fishing trips, because of a vocal minority of (I am trying very hard not to use the word 'Trolls") folk who are quick to denigrate - the site is poorer for it.
 
Good question!

I don’t have data on that. I’m sure someone does - Litz or someone like that.

Thinking from first principles, my instinct would be that it’s most likely to be linear or possibly accelerating.

Interesting. My hunch would be it's not particularly linear- as recoil is perceived and is a function of the power of the cartridge, the mass of the rifle and the mass of the shooter.

There's probably a calculation whereby when the ft lbs of recoil exceeds a fraction of their bodyweight- most shooters develop a flinch- or at least have to try consciously not to.

I would also think this flinch would depend on whether one was shooting live quarry or targets.
 
There's probably a calculation whereby when the ft lbs of recoil exceeds a fraction of their bodyweight- most shooters develop a flinch- or at least have to try consciously not to.

Funny thing.

Having fired a plethora of calibres, I have never flinched when firing any firearm.

However.

Last year, just for sh*ts and giggles, I bought a muzzle-loading, flintlock pistol.

By the third shot, I had developed a remarkable and significant flinch. Who knew?🤔
 
I find group sizes are non linear with regard to calibre. I can maintain sub MOA quite readily up to .375 from prone with a rest but after that it gets quite painful and the group size suffers. This could be due to other factors such as the scopes that are fitted to larger rifles tend to be much lower magnification and have big heavy reticles or red dots. I once had a particularly unpleasant zero session from prone with an eight pound .458 Win Mag, six shots and I was done!!
 
Didn't the US army settle on 30-06 back in the day due to their research? This research flund that the average man could reliable tollerate the recoil from 30-06 fired in a battle rifle weight platform.
 
Funny thing.

Having fired a plethora of calibres, I have never flinched when firing any firearm.

However.

Last year, just for sh*ts and giggles, I bought a muzzle-loading, flintlock pistol.

By the third shot, I had developed a remarkable and significant flinch. Who knew?🤔
That’s sounds awesome I want one! Does it go on a ticket or obsolete calibre anyone can buy one but you need an BP license?
 
Funny thing.

Having fired a plethora of calibres, I have never flinched when firing any firearm.

However.

Last year, just for sh*ts and giggles, I bought a muzzle-loading, flintlock pistol.

By the third shot, I had developed a remarkable and significant flinch. Who knew?🤔
It's hard to overcome the click hiss boom of a flintlock pistol . You will learn the meaning of follow through . I had the same problem by the way .

AB
 
Didn't the US army settle on 30-06 back in the day due to their research? This research flund that the average man could reliable tollerate the recoil from 30-06 fired in a battle rifle weight platform.
If the research included recoil tolerance I would be amazed. Original M-1 ball was a 173 grn bullet around 2500 or so fps discontinued for two reasons, recoil and it went past the buffer zones on ranges.
 
Does it go on a ticket or obsolete calibre anyone can buy one but you need an BP license?

@Utectok


It does go on one's FAC.

It is a .58 calibre.

I bought mine from Henry Krank's in Yorkshire, (it was on 'backorder' and took about a year).

I use BP for the damn thing, and do have BPC (Form ER5) - these are (currently) free from your FLD - which entitles one to 'Aquire & Keep' explosives.

Unknown-4.webp
 
This channel is doing a deep-dive on everything you need to know for elk hunting this week? Ron Spomer Outdoors might be some use from USA folks themselves.

All the rifle/ballistic videos are released already from what I can tell.
 
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