Wanted: Air rifle

[Saracen666]

With a PCP possibly but no circular argument here. Unless you have shots that are clear of obstacles in the prone position, which isn't particularly common, I'm saying a bipod then has no use. Don't forget very few air rifles or, especially firearms, will shoot to the same point of impact as I pointed out. Perhaos a PCP may do, but it depends where you're using it. If it's sub 12 ft lbs, why not just shoot free hand prone. That's an easy 40 yard shot fir most people.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Actually i used to do a lot of prone with the airguns . I dont use it now because i dont need to get my whole front wet and muddy , the range is not anything like long with normal air guns and over decades i have got to be more accurate free hand , i do think the most stable position is as used in FT most commonly the seated position using knees for support , however my bones are starting to say No to that now. I started in very flat fields so prone was a most common stance for concealment. Stalking deer if i can get a prone shot i will nearly always take it as such just for the concealment and stability offered

Range is a funny thing. The head shot kill zone on a 35 yard squirrel with a sub 12 is wayyyyy smaller than a chest shot deer at 100 yards.

That may be the most stable position of those avaliable in FT- but it takes incredible amounts of practice. A bipod and sticks and anyone with a PCP can shoot accurately very quickly IMO.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

It's accurate, but expecting even a 22 to shoot to the same POI off of a bipod if it's been zeroed on one is unlikely, free floating barrel, or not. I've proven this. Results may vary.
As you know, it's all about harmonics / vibrations.
A classic example of this, even with a 22, last week :
RWS subsonic, v CCI subsonic, same weight, but about 1.5" difference in windage at 80 yards!
So there's zero reason to think a bipod zero will replicate a non bipod zero, and yes, the rifle has a free floated barrel. This was on an Anschutz, same happened on a CZ years ago.
Not only that, unless it's a really difficult shot, there's not much reason to lay prone. More movement, long grass etc acting as obstacles.

Apologies I missed this first reply.

No doubt that at CF target distances 1000 yards etc just about everything effects the shot.

But for normal shooting distances- I disagree- with a PCP or a firearm I do not think that a zero will move meaningfully. If you zero off a bipod properly setup- and it's a freefloating barrel and rigid stock - IME the zero will not move if you shoot off sticks, freehand etc.

Very significantly recoiling rifles may a little? 45-70 unmoderated etc. Perhaps heavily recoiling but slow subsonic rounds (300 blackout in a vvvv light gun maybe) ? But it's not significant. A bipod represents support at the front of the stock- most shooting positions replace this with a front stick or hand. The rear hand or stick holds the pistol grip region- which again doesn't change.

I do not see how your example of a change of POI between two different makes of ammo is remotely relevant? Have you any actual evidence of a moving zero between bipod and other methods of zeroing in multiple guns ? Or just one troublesome one ?

With a PCP possibly but no circular argument here. Unless you have shots that are clear of obstacles in the prone position, which isn't particularly common, I'm saying a bipod then has no use. Don't forget very few air rifles or, especially firearms, will shoot to the same point of impact as I pointed out. Perhaos a PCP may do, but it depends where you're using it. If it's sub 12 ft lbs, why not just shoot free hand prone. That's an easy 40 yard shot fir most people.

Very often bipod shots are clear of obstacles- otherwise you don't take them Especially in airgun shooting situations. Squirrels on feeders or rabbits in relatively short grass- both common situations.

If you want a super precise zero- it makes sense to use the most accurate method possible. This is usually the bipod. Or a bag or similar. If you're zeroing with a less accurate method then your zero will be less accurate.

You think 40 yards is an easy freehand shot with an airgun ? Jeez I don't. Kill Zone of a squirrel is really very small. Even a rabbit isn't huge at 40 yards with a little pellet. Sure HMR and your kill zone increases in size massively. But a little sub 12 pellet you have to be spot on. Are you saying you freehand squirrels and rabbits at 40 yards consistently? How many shots can you put in 1" at 40 yards freehand in hunting conditions? You must be a much better shot than me.

 

[foxer1]

.22lr with shorts

And a string vest too id say in this heat lol

 

[Saracen666]

Range is a funny thing. The head shot kill zone on a 35 yard squirrel with a sub 12 is wayyyyy smaller than a chest shot deer at 100 yards.

That may be the most stable position of those avaliable in FT- but it takes incredible amounts of practice. A bipod and sticks and anyone with a PCP can shoot accurately very quickly IMO.

Yes nut most people don't take headshits on vermin nor do they need to.
I look at an air rifle as a 25 yard, open sighted item that's cheap to shoot, or if you're really keen, stick a 2.5X, or 4X scope on it.
Resting off of a stick, my HW99S ( which I rarely use), with open sights, I can hit a 30mm dot every single time at 25 yards in a ten shot group. That's okay nothing amazing, but I wouldn't expect anything less. Stick a scope on it, get a better rest, and I'd wager I'd extend the range 10 yards. In fact out of curiosity I may try it.
Back in the 80's I shot a ton of squirrels, free hand, with a .177 Webley Vulcan and a 4X Tasco. I'd say most shots were between twenty to 30 yards, and virtually none were ever prone.

 

[Saracen666]

Have you any photos?

Here.

 

[Saracen666]

Indeed. But very few people can do that every time. Finding soft consistent surfaces isn't always easy. Sometimes you can rest a springer on your hand and have that on a shooting stick for example- but it's an awful lot harder. Most will miss.

Keeping a PCP accurate to 45 yards is a doddle. It's much much harder with a springer. Let alone in hunting conditions.

You don't rest on a surface, you rest in the palm of your hand. What the back of your hand rests on, if not free standing, is another matter
Very few circumstances I can think of where a non FAC air rifle could realistically have a bipod attached to it.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Yes nut most people don't take headshits on vermin nor do they need to.
I look at an air rifle as a 25 yard, open sighted item that's cheap to shoot, or if you're really keen, stick a 2.5X, or 4X scope on it.
Resting off of a stick, my HW99S ( which I rarely use), with open sights, I can hit a 30mm dot every single time at 25 yards in a ten shot group. That's okay nothing amazing, but I wouldn't expect anything less. Stick a scope on it, get a better rest, and I'd wager I'd extend the range 10 yards. In fact out of curiosity I may try it.
Back in the 80's I shot a ton of squirrels, free hand, with a .177 Webley Vulcan and a 4X Tasco. I'd say most shots were between twenty to 30 yards, and virtually none were ever prone.

Depends on the type of squirrel shooting you're doing. To really make a difference with an airgun- shooting them off a feeder is the only way IMO. If you have all the time in the world- walking around with a springer is fun. But to make a real dent- bipod off a bench with plenty of cover is v comfortable.

IME chest shot squirrels run a long way from a 177. 22 works much better if you're going to chest shot. Head either is fine.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

You don't rest on a surface, you rest in the palm of your hand. What the back of your hand rests on, if not free standing, is another matter
Very few circumstances I can think of where a non FAC air rifle could realistically have a bipod attached to it.

Agreed re your hand resting on the surface- artillery hold etc etc.

Shot placement is vital with sub 12. Setting up 25 yards from a hedge and waiting for rabbits works great with a bipod. So does shooting off a squirrel feeder. A bipod is an ambush tool with an air gun. And ambushing is arguably the most effective way for weak air rifles- as getting within airgun range is incredibly difficult.