Alladale.

Bo Diddley

Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if Paul Lister's Alladale project is a success or maybe not?
It seems like quite a grand scheme to undertake, you need deep pockets, that's for sure.
 
Not heard of it, have you a link?
I've not figured out how to do a link from this Chromebook. Sorry.

If you Google it, I'm sure you will get some info. It's a huge rewilding program, the main aim was to reduce the deer population to virtually zero to allow regeneration of the Caledonian forest.

I was curious to know from someone who has seen the project with their own eyes how it's all looking.

Google led me to it after I watched a video of Bison being released into areas of North America where they had been hunted to extinction. The impact on the habitat appears to be very positive with that project.
 
I knew Alladale well, especially when under previous ownership. I spent quite a bit of time up there and shot a lot of deer with fixed power scopes and no moderators.

I also knew the neighbouring estates well.

Define success.

Alladale Lodge is well booked and has plenty of visitors who go there for the scenery and wildlife.

There are YouTube videos about the place- one was posted recently- its a crock of AI bull****. There were and still are large areas of native Caledonian pine forest in the area. Looking at google earth imaging - it has spread along the valley floors somewhat, but at the top end is hard thin soils so etc so will be tough going.

Saying that, pre clearance those glens supported several thousand people all scratching a living with cattle and strips of crops. You could still identify many of the old runrigs.

I know the family who used to own one of the neighouring estates. The old man reckoned his hole in the heather cost a net £1 to £2m a year of cash being poured into it from all his other businesses - and this even though the main and small lodge, the fishing and stalking was all fully let at top end pricing. Ultimately this became unsustainable and the estate was sold on to others who could afford it.

Rewilding works because of the push towards ESG - Environmental, Sustainability and Governance - and the rise in the number of pension and institutional funds that now have an ESG policy and governance requirement for all their investments.

So if you are a director / chairman of a reasonable sized business, but you want a lot more liquidity in your shares - whether that’s quoted, or private, or family office money - but you don’t really meet the ESG requirements you go and buy several thousand acres of Scotland and put it on the balance sheet of your company.

You write a rewilding business plan and get some grants, and ensure that one or two iconic and endangered species are on the the land, and suddenly you have a sufficient proportion of your net assets now in ESG qualifying activity.

And suddenly your potential shareholder base has increased dramatically, and those ESG funds are all clamouring for your nicely profitable business to be in their portfolio.

Net result is that the increase in share price more than compensates for the cost of the highland estate.

And Mr Chairman’s own wealth, which is directly tied to his shares and share performance also does very well.

Fast forward to the next generation. A generalisation, but children and grandchildren of wealthy industrialists are often feckless idiots.

We now have the old founding chairman getting long in the tooth. The professional management of the PLC and those managing the family office, set up by the chairman really do not want the feckless idiots getting involved in the day to day mgmt of the company, as they will destroy it every body will be without jobs.

So actually they are encouraged to go to the Royal Agricultural College where they will be able marry plenty of other land. And you encourage them to do all this rewilding etc etc, as it keeps the core ESG status nice and healthy, they spend all their time going around all their friends rewilded estates etc etc and you keep them well and truly away from the money making machine.

It might cost a bit, but one hell of a lot cheaper, than if they actually got their hands on the core business that makes the wealth.

In the good old days, exactly the same system worked, except that shooting was the pastime. They would go from one house party to another and were again kept well and truly away from the source of the wealth. Given the alleged behaviour at such house parties, heirs would be provided, even if your own abilities were somewhat lacking.
 
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I knew Alladale well, especially when under previous ownership. I spent quite a bit of time up there and shot a lot of deer with fixed power scopes and no moderators.

I also knew the neighbouring estates well.

Define success.

Alladale Lodge is well booked and has plenty of visitors who go there for the scenery and wildlife.

There are YouTube videos about the place- one was posted recently- its a crock of AI bull****. There were and still are large areas of native Caledonian pine forest in the area. Looking at google earth imaging - it has spread along the valley floors somewhat, but at the top end is hard thin soils so etc so will be tough going.

Saying that, pre clearance those glens supported several thousand people all scratching a living with cattle and strips of crops. You could still identify many of the old runrigs.

I know the family who used to own one of the neighouring estates. The old man reckoned his hole in the heather cost a net £1 to £2m a year of cash being poured into it from all his other businesses - and this even though the main and small lodge, the fishing and stalking was all fully let at top end pricing. Ultimately this became unsustainable and the estate was sold on to others who could afford it.

Rewilding works because of the push towards ESG - Environmental, Sustainability and Governance - and the rise in the number of pension and institutional funds that now have an ESG policy and governance requirement for all their investments.

So if you are a director / chairman of a reasonable sized business, but you want a lot more liquidity in your shares - whether that’s quoted, or private, or family office money - but you don’t really meet the ESG requirements you go and buy several thousand acres of Scotland and put it on the balance sheet of your company.

You write a rewilding business plan and get some grants, and ensure that one or two iconic and endangered species are on the the land, and suddenly you have a sufficient proportion of your net assets now in ESG qualifying activity.

And suddenly your potential shareholder base has increased dramatically, and those ESG funds are all clamouring for your nicely profitable business to be in their portfolio.

Net result is that the increase in share price more than compensates for the cost of the highland estate.

And Mr Chairman’s own wealth, which is directly tied to his shares and share performance also does very well.

Fast forward to the next generation. A generalisation, but children and grandchildren of wealthy industrialists are often feckless idiots.

We now have the old founding chairman getting long in the tooth. The professional management of the PLC and those managing the family office, set up by the chairman really do not want the feckless idiots getting involved in the day to day mgmt of the company, as they will destroy it every body will be without jobs.

So actually they are encouraged to go to the Royal Agricultural College where they will be able marry plenty of other land. And you encourage them to do all this rewilding etc etc, as it keeps the core ESG status nice and healthy, they spend all their time going around all their friends rewilded estates etc etc and you keep them well and truly away from the money making machine.

It might cost a bit, but one hell of a lot cheaper, than if they actually got their hands on the core business that makes the wealth.

In the good old days, exactly the same system worked, except that shooting was the pastime. They would go from one house party to another and were again kept well and truly away from the source of the wealth. Given the alleged behaviour at such house parties, heirs would be provided, even if your own abilities were somewhat lacking.
Well said
 
I knew Alladale well, especially when under previous ownership. I spent quite a bit of time up there and shot a lot of deer with fixed power scopes and no moderators.

I also knew the neighbouring estates well.

Define success.

Alladale Lodge is well booked and has plenty of visitors who go there for the scenery and wildlife.

There are YouTube videos about the place- one was posted recently- its a crock of AI bull****. There were and still are large areas of native Caledonian pine forest in the area. Looking at google earth imaging - it has spread along the valley floors somewhat, but at the top end is hard thin soils so etc so will be tough going.

Saying that, pre clearance those glens supported several thousand people all scratching a living with cattle and strips of crops. You could still identify many of the old runrigs.

I know the family who used to own one of the neighouring estates. The old man reckoned his hole in the heather cost a net £1 to £2m a year of cash being poured into it from all his other businesses - and this even though the main and small lodge, the fishing and stalking was all fully let at top end pricing. Ultimately this became unsustainable and the estate was sold on to others who could afford it.

Rewilding works because of the push towards ESG - Environmental, Sustainability and Governance - and the rise in the number of pension and institutional funds that now have an ESG policy and governance requirement for all their investments.

So if you are a director / chairman of a reasonable sized business, but you want a lot more liquidity in your shares - whether that’s quoted, or private, or family office money - but you don’t really meet the ESG requirements you go and buy several thousand acres of Scotland and put it on the balance sheet of your company.

You write a rewilding business plan and get some grants, and ensure that one or two iconic and endangered species are on the the land, and suddenly you have a sufficient proportion of your net assets now in ESG qualifying activity.

And suddenly your potential shareholder base has increased dramatically, and those ESG funds are all clamouring for your nicely profitable business to be in their portfolio.

Net result is that the increase in share price more than compensates for the cost of the highland estate.

And Mr Chairman’s own wealth, which is directly tied to his shares and share performance also does very well.

Fast forward to the next generation. A generalisation, but children and grandchildren of wealthy industrialists are often feckless idiots.

We now have the old founding chairman getting long in the tooth. The professional management of the PLC and those managing the family office, set up by the chairman really do not want the feckless idiots getting involved in the day to day mgmt of the company, as they will destroy it every body will be without jobs.

So actually they are encouraged to go to the Royal Agricultural College where they will be able marry plenty of other land. And you encourage them to do all this rewilding etc etc, as it keeps the core ESG status nice and healthy, they spend all their time going around all their friends rewilded estates etc etc and you keep them well and truly away from the money making machine.

It might cost a bit, but one hell of a lot cheaper, than if they actually got their hands on the core business that makes the wealth.

In the good old days, exactly the same system worked, except that shooting was the pastime. They would go from one house party to another and were again kept well and truly away from the source of the wealth. Given the alleged behaviour at such house parties, heirs would be provided, even if your own abilities were somewhat lacking.
Thanks very much for the reply @Heym SR20 .

I realised it was all done as a money-spinner, and that it had upset the apple cart, so to speak. I was curious as to the state of the forest, much improved or otherwise? Probably just a pipe dream, are the management really bothered about habitat improvement, or is it all purely financial?

You mention "pre-clearance." Are you referring to the Great Highland Clearance 1750 - 1860, or meaning when the Alladale was taken over?
 
Thanks very much for the reply @Heym SR20 .

I realised it was all done as a money-spinner, and that it had upset the apple cart, so to speak. I was curious as to the state of the forest, much improved or otherwise? Probably just a pipe dream, are the management really bothered about habitat improvement, or is it all purely financial?

You mention "pre-clearance." Are you referring to the Great Highland Clearance 1750 - 1860, or meaning when the Alladale was taken over?
I am talking the big clearances.

Re Alladale in the mid 1990’s to early 2000’s.

For context I wrote my undergrad thesis for Agriculture in the late 1980’s on the use of African wild ungulates for meat production on African range lands.

During my research it quickly became clear to me that the African landscape is a complex mix of grasses and herbs with scrubby bushes and trees. And the whole ecosystem is a constantly evolving and changing mix, with a vast range of different animals thriving on different layers. But to be successful and productive you need a mix of species. Sedentary species - impala, kudu etc are able to thrive on a mix of different vegetation abd they get through the dry winter months on fat reserves and being able to pick off seeds - mopane / acacia etc which then allows to digest low grade dry grasses, and they have internal fat reserves. In the meantime you have grazing animals - buffalo, wildebeest etc which are grass eaters and need high quality grass. Historically they cannot survive well in the dry season and hence they follow the rainfall and move to wetter locations. And the likes of Elephant which knock over trees to feed, creating new open areas but migrate over decades through 100s of miles allow trees to regrow.

At that point most of Southern, former colonial agriculture was mimicking European farming. Get rid of the bush, grow grass and farm cows, preferably British breeds such as Herefords.

Huge amounts had been spent over 100 years clearing indigenous animals and getting rid of Tetse fly. Likes of my father built large irrigation schenes across central aftica to produce irrigated pasture and alfaffa to feed such livestock.

But it didn’t really work. Regular drought and disease made such farming difficult. Wrong animal in an artificial environment not suited to the climate.

In late 80’s early 90’s some people were talking about game ranching. Most thought they were nuts. Game belonged in game reserves.

But Southern Africa now has more game than it ever used to. Farmers have found that by letting the bush regrow, reintroducing indigenous species you now have huge opportunities for different income sources from the land

1) meat production - a continuous and sustainable supply of high quality meat products that requires minimal input to grow the crop. Other than water supplies, a litte supplementary feeding (mineral blocks) etc and a bullet between the eyes, the animals human input is minimal, yet you are gettting more meat per km2 than you ever could with traditional farming techniques.

2) sport hunting for trophies for older mature animals and in the slightly more remote areas. Typically farmhouse based plains game hunts. Very good sustainable income shooting out the older animals which are beyond successful breeding age.

3) Africa / Wildlife Tourism. This is the more mass / up market photographic where people want to see Africa and the wildlife. But they want pretty / interesting landscapes, good infrastructure and comfortable but affordable accommodation.

Large swathes of South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zambia and to some extent Zimbabwe are now offering all of the above. They are very very different to very remote, truly wild areas, but for most of us going into those truly wild areas is well beyond our means as its bloody expensive and requires lots of resources even to just get into, let alone stay and hunt in such places.

Alladale, and many other parts of Scotland had the mindset that would potentially follow the African model - and that was very exciting.

As in, lets get rid of the sheep. As the lairds quickly found out, clearing the natives off the land to make way for sheep really didn’t work. Sheep are naturally a desert, dry country animal. They are non native and non adapted to wet Scotland, and Scottish intensive wool production didnt last long as it couldn’t compete with Australia and Argentine production of large volumes of much better wool.

And there was already quite considerable areas of land where deer had been excluded for a few years and the natural forests had already regrown. However such natural forests very quickly an impenetrable jungle and it needs big animals to manage it so that there is a continued cycle of regeneration

Deer are helpful, but you also good grazers and animals that can clean out bracken, roots and bugs etc. Deer will do this to some extent, but best is pigs or wild boar.

Alladale had vision of creating a landscape of Scottish natural woodland in various states of maturity with a wide range of animals and birds life that should be indigenous at 60°North type lattitudes, with income coming from multiple different sources, and in particular from visitors paying good money for the experience.

Where i think has got it totally wrong is

1) the messaging. All the focus on wolves and bears, just means that nobody is prepared to engage or listen. You immediately put yourself in the “nutter” camp.

2) Deer have been tarred with the Evil brush. I know several of the former stalkers in the Highlands. Many of them were hefted to the land just like the deer they managed - as in born land as were their fathers, grandfathers, great grandparents etc. They had grown up building quality herds of very good red deer, that provided sustainable harvest of many animals over many years.

I have stayed at one estate a little North of Alladale, but very similar land. They have a games room in which the biggest stag from each of last 140 years displayed. The carcass weight is shown on the plaque. Most are well over 25 stone.

If you get the stocking densities correct these estates can produce very good quality animals, not only trophy but in meat quality.

Many of these stalkers were got rid off and with that all their knowledge of how to manage the land and the deer.

3) the market for venison was allowed to absolutely crash. When I used to stalk up North in the 1990’s most of the 200 plus hinds were butchered in the larder and sold into the local market. The poorer beasts went to the game dealer.

4) Forestry management, upland management, deer management, river management, wildlife management and farm management are all treated in the UK as completely separate disciplines with absolutely no desire, willingness or need to cross reference and talk with each other. Mostly it is open warfare with occasional truce. Deer Management Groups sort of worked in the days when owners and stalkers would all get together and actually talk with each other face to face. Even better they would all deer counts together, kids were in the local schools and stalkers were cornerstone to mountain rescue. The likes of the Deer Commission and other Government Agencies had local representatives on the ground who were all part of the same community.

Nowadays all that is gone. Most of stalkers etc are gone. They are replaced by estate management companies driven from desks somewhere, interfacing with faceless government agencies.

And decision and policy driven by vested interests. Take fencing - I really question over the life of a forest (40,50 or 60 years) does a deer fence really make much difference to overall yield of timber. But having fencing a mandatory part of any planting / rewilding grant is bloody good for the well being of fencing contractors.

If we were producing high quality venison where we are getting a good price for the end product and this was seen as part of the overall income strategy, along with the sporting lets, tourism etc. And when it comes to taking out timber, the timber is of the type and quality that can be turned high grade product in the local market, rather shipped out and sold in bulk for paper milling elsewhere, wouldn’t the whole landscape be so so much better for all concerned.

Yes this is a vision, but it happens elsewhere. In Scotland we seem to be having a race to the bottom. And then we sell it all off to the lowest bidder for further rape and pillage.
 
Looking at The Alladale website


They have really nice lodges now. I once took what’s now called Eagles Crag a couple of times for a week with family nearly 30 years ago. It was run on gas lights and wonderful. It has clearly had plenty of money spent on it. It is at least 40 miles from the main road, and probably the last 20 is a gravel road, so costs of doing any work is very high.

Looking at the photos of the estate, the trees look about 30 years further on from where they were.

It is very definitely not catering towards any “sporting type clients” but for those who want the wild experience

Prices are on the website and you can take your own views.

But from what I can gather they are reasonably busy.

But I suspect not being able to take your dog with you is a non starter for many.
 
I knew Alladale well, especially when under previous ownership. I spent quite a bit of time up there and shot a lot of deer with fixed power scopes and no moderators.

I also knew the neighbouring estates well.

Define success.

Alladale Lodge is well booked and has plenty of visitors who go there for the scenery and wildlife.

There are YouTube videos about the place- one was posted recently- its a crock of AI bull****. There were and still are large areas of native Caledonian pine forest in the area. Looking at google earth imaging - it has spread along the valley floors somewhat, but at the top end is hard thin soils so etc so will be tough going.

Saying that, pre clearance those glens supported several thousand people all scratching a living with cattle and strips of crops. You could still identify many of the old runrigs.

I know the family who used to own one of the neighouring estates. The old man reckoned his hole in the heather cost a net £1 to £2m a year of cash being poured into it from all his other businesses - and this even though the main and small lodge, the fishing and stalking was all fully let at top end pricing. Ultimately this became unsustainable and the estate was sold on to others who could afford it.

Rewilding works because of the push towards ESG - Environmental, Sustainability and Governance - and the rise in the number of pension and institutional funds that now have an ESG policy and governance requirement for all their investments.

So if you are a director / chairman of a reasonable sized business, but you want a lot more liquidity in your shares - whether that’s quoted, or private, or family office money - but you don’t really meet the ESG requirements you go and buy several thousand acres of Scotland and put it on the balance sheet of your company.

You write a rewilding business plan and get some grants, and ensure that one or two iconic and endangered species are on the the land, and suddenly you have a sufficient proportion of your net assets now in ESG qualifying activity.

And suddenly your potential shareholder base has increased dramatically, and those ESG funds are all clamouring for your nicely profitable business to be in their portfolio.

Net result is that the increase in share price more than compensates for the cost of the highland estate.

And Mr Chairman’s own wealth, which is directly tied to his shares and share performance also does very well.

Fast forward to the next generation. A generalisation, but children and grandchildren of wealthy industrialists are often feckless idiots.

We now have the old founding chairman getting long in the tooth. The professional management of the PLC and those managing the family office, set up by the chairman really do not want the feckless idiots getting involved in the day to day mgmt of the company, as they will destroy it every body will be without jobs.

So actually they are encouraged to go to the Royal Agricultural College where they will be able marry plenty of other land. And you encourage them to do all this rewilding etc etc, as it keeps the core ESG status nice and healthy, they spend all their time going around all their friends rewilded estates etc etc and you keep them well and truly away from the money making machine.

It might cost a bit, but one hell of a lot cheaper, than if they actually got their hands on the core business that makes the wealth.

In the good old days, exactly the same system worked, except that shooting was the pastime. They would go from one house party to another and were again kept well and truly away from the source of the wealth. Given the alleged behaviour at such house parties, heirs would be provided, even if your own abilities were somewhat lacking.
That should be printed out on steel sheets and posted along the A9!
 
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