American powders

[CarlW]

Hi,

I know this was mentioned in passing on another thread but I am just wondering what people's views are on the upcoming EU rules which will affect the import of American powders?

I am a confirmed Hodgdon fan but am nervous over whether to continue to invest time/money in them if they are about to dry up. On the one hand, I could cut my losses now, ditch Hodgdon and start all over again with a different manufacturer; on the other, I could keep stocked up with Hodgdon and hope the new rules don't come to fruition. Mix and match isn't an option for me: I tend to invest emotionally in a brand then stick with it: a marketing man's dream, eh?

Do any of you who currently use US powders have a plan?

Kindest regards,

Carl

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

and hope the new rules don't come to fruition.

extremely unlikely
already coming to fruition in the pricing of US powders and the response from the EU producers

You could stock up depending on how much you shoot. but then what?

The range of Vhit and Reload Swiss powders is only getting bigger and better
The majority of target shooters I know are moving to RS or Vhit now given the volumes and reliance on powders from the same lot number

personally I would be moving sharpish before prices go up yet again

Two things that won't happen
The US producers won't suddenly make compliant products on the basis of a 3-5% market share
The EU and UK won't overlook one aspect of a 10 year planned hazardous goods legislation just because it deals with innocuous shooter's powders


The question no-one seems to be asking is what happens to US ammunition filled with non REACH compliant propellants!?

if the powders are off limits then so will the ammo.....

 

[CarlW]

Depressingly, I think you are right. Are current formulations of Vhit and RL already compliant or will I be faced with the prospect of working up Vhit loads for both pre and post-ban?

 

[Spiker]

Vih and Reload Swiss already comply. They are also cheaper. Stock up.

Spiker.

 

[stubear]

I'm not up to speed on the latest legislation but of my two nearest RFD's, one stopped selling powder altogether (not worth the hassle apparently) and the other stocks exclusively ReloadSwiss so thats what I'm using. The latter being Fultons at Bisley, and as I'm up there pretty regularly it works well to swing by them on the way. I'm using RS52 in my hunting rifle and our TR club is using RS50, as are many others at Bisley now.

As an FYI I did see Laurie mention on a thread here somewhere that RS52 is similar to Varget/N150 and RS50 is similar to N140, though I gather the pressures in the RS products are lower than their equivalents from other makers. You would obviously need to work loads up but their final performance is not utter chalk and cheese. Apologies Laurie if I've misquoted you anywhere here, please do correct me!

I think there are a couple of smaller sellers in my area who stock Viht powders and one who stocks Viht plus Accurate, Alliant and Hodgdon but in light of this legislation I suspect they might end up winding some of those lines down. We shall see I guess.

TBH if it were me I'd probably swap over to a powder you know you wont have a problem with down the line. Just easier in the long term really!

 

[User00033]

CarlW

Are you able to purchase ADI branded powders in the UK? If so, these are Hodgdon. ADI manufactures, and rebrands as Hodgdon in the US. (A) You probably know this, (B) I did a quick google and didnt see much to convince me that ADI is available in Blighty. But, just in case points A and B are incorrect...

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

https://www.reload-swiss.com/en/media/editor_media/reload_swiss/pdf/Burnrate_Chart_dt.pdf

http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf

 

[CarlW]

Thanks, guys. Those burning charts are helpful. It seems like RS52 might be worth a look for my .308. I see it is also mentioned in relation to .375 so would possibly cover two cartridges. If they don't like that then I might look at N140 and N540, although I saw a bit of a horror story on the interweb a while back about VV powders corroding cases during storage of loaded rounds. Put me off a bit.

Is Reload Swiss here to stay or will I be picking your brains again in a year or two?!

Unfortunately, Dodgyknees, I have never seen ADI powders here and, in any event, I think I am right in saying that it is the constituent chemistry that is to be banned so any powder that contains those ingredients would also be outlawed.

I am going to miss my neat little row of Hodgdon bottles sitting on the shelf.

V best,

Carl

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

I saw a bit of a horror story on the interweb a while back about VV powders corroding cases during storage of loaded rounds. Put me off a bit.

Is Reload Swiss here to stay or will I be picking your brains again in a year or two?!

a) don't believe everything you read on the t'web

b) absolutely. huge investment by the parent company now they see the size of the potential market

 

[Muir]

I am a confirmed Hodgdon fan but am nervous over whether to continue to invest time/money in them if they are about to dry up. On the one hand, I could cut my losses now, ditch Hodgdon and start all over again with a different manufacturer.....

Good Lord. You sound as if switching powders will cause you to need to move to another town! Whether you switch now or when/if Hodgdon powders dry up, you are still having to change loads. Shoot Hodgdon until you can't get it anymore and then switch. You're not 'investing' anything by carrying on.~Muir

 

[sh1kar]

Thanks, guys. Those burning charts are helpful. It seems like RS52 might be worth a look for my .308. I see it is also mentioned in relation to .375 so would possibly cover two cartridges. If they don't like that then I might look at N140 and N540, although I saw a bit of a horror story on the interweb a while back about VV powders corroding cases during storage of loaded rounds. Put me off a bit.

Is Reload Swiss here to stay or will I be picking your brains again in a year or two?!



Unfortunately, Dodgyknees, I have never seen ADI powders here and, in any event, I think I am right in saying that it is the constituent chemistry that is to be banned so any powder that contains those ingredients would also be outlawed.

I am going to miss my neat little row of Hodgdon bottles sitting on the shelf.

V best,

Carl

Carl I use Viht in my 375 with good results I can dig out the recipe if wish
S

 

[stubear]

Thanks, guys. Those burning charts are helpful. It seems like RS52 might be worth a look for my .308. I see it is also mentioned in relation to .375 so would possibly cover two cartridges. If they don't like that then I might look at N140 and N540, although I saw a bit of a horror story on the interweb a while back about VV powders corroding cases during storage of loaded rounds. Put me off a bit.

Is Reload Swiss here to stay or will I be picking your brains again in a year or two?!

Unfortunately, Dodgyknees, I have never seen ADI powders here and, in any event, I think I am right in saying that it is the constituent chemistry that is to be banned so any powder that contains those ingredients would also be outlawed.

I am going to miss my neat little row of Hodgdon bottles sitting on the shelf.

V best,

Carl

I've worked up a load using RS52 (thread here) which seems to be pretty decent for my .308. Being a born OCD-er I have actually bought some SGK's in 165gn as well just to see if they perform any better than the Interbonds...

Leaving well alone is for wusses haha! To be fair I shot a 9 shot group at 100 yards with the interbond load and it was just under 1MOA.

But in terms of the powders performance I have found it to be pretty decent. I worked up as high as 46gn with absolutely no pressure signs at all (RS's own recommended max is 45.5) but the accuracy wasnt really there at that 45.5/46gn and I didnt see the need to go any higher TBH... Its a stalking load, not a long distance TR load.

Obviously you'll need to work the loads up from min in your rifle, but thus far for me it seems to be a pretty decent powder and reasonably temperature stable. I've used it on really hot days with 45gn and again still no pressure signs.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

It's worth remembering that a fair number of European powders end up here anyway - e.g. Alliant sell Swiss and (I think) Swedish produced powders. Not sure if anyone is rebranding Vhit, Ramshot is Belgian.

Use what you've got - buy what you can get. Don't worry about the fact that you'll end up having to rejig your loads over time. H4895 produced this year should probably not be treated as the same powder as H4895 produced 10 years ago anyway.

 

[jon2]

I've missed this - can anyone direct me to Laurie Holland's thread regarding this please?

 

[CarlW]

Carl I use Viht in my 375 with good results I can dig out the recipe if wish
S

Hi Shikar,

That woukd be fabulous. Thank you.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[CarlW]

I've worked up a load using RS52 (thread here) which seems to be pretty decent for my .308. Being a born OCD-er I have actually bought some SGK's in 165gn as well just to see if they perform any better than the Interbonds...

Leaving well alone is for wusses haha! To be fair I shot a 9 shot group at 100 yards with the interbond load and it was just under 1MOA.

But in terms of the powders performance I have found it to be pretty decent. I worked up as high as 46gn with absolutely no pressure signs at all (RS's own recommended max is 45.5) but the accuracy wasnt really there at that 45.5/46gn and I didnt see the need to go any higher TBH... Its a stalking load, not a long distance TR load.

Obviously you'll need to work the loads up from min in your rifle, but thus far for me it seems to be a pretty decent powder and reasonably temperature stable. I've used it on really hot days with 45gn and again still no pressure signs.

Thanks, Stubear. Am going to try this as soon as I get back to the UK in mid-Oct.

 

[CarlW]

Good Lord. You sound as if switching powders will cause you to need to move to another town! Whether you switch now or when/if Hodgdon powders dry up, you are still having to change loads. Shoot Hodgdon until you can't get it anymore and then switch. You're not 'investing' anything by carrying on.~Muir

Hi Muir,

I get upset every time the packaging on my breakfast cereal is updated (every ten years or so). Not sure whether to speak to the manufacturers or to a psychiatrist...

But I take your point...

Kindest regards,

Carl

 

[Andy RV]

The substance which is causing the issue is DBP which is being outlawed by REACH. DBP is used as a burn rate moderant on spherical ball powders. It is not used in cut tubular 'stick' propellants.

The warnings on the propellant bottle normally show if it contains DBP.

There is a alternative, Centralite 1, which is used in place of DBP so ball propellant production is not going to suddenly stop.

 

[CarlW]

The substance which is causing the issue is DBP which is being outlawed by REACH. DBP is used as a burn rate moderant on spherical ball powders. It is not used in cut tubular 'stick' propellants.

The warnings on the propellant bottle normally show if it contains DBP.

There is a alternative, Centralite 1, which is used in place of DBP so ball propellant production is not going to suddenly stop.

Now I'm confused again. So none of Hodgdon's extruded stick powders are affected? H4895, H4350, Varget, etc. All fine?

 

[JTO]

I don't think many people would not tell you to stick with VV powders, once you have found what suits your kit.