An huge own goal by the Shooting Organizations - the lead farce

[Apthorpe]

Meanwhile.... the volume of science on lead shot ingestion by birds continues to grow. This time it's Japan.

This time it's 132 birds on the other side of the world, of which 10 had probably ingested lead shot, one of which had enough to have been poisoned. This is still what the GWCT, a source you acknowledge to be more expert than you, summarises as "little evidence". It is completely deranged for you to think you're representing any interest other than that of anti-shooting activists by pretending that one poisoned Japanese duck is relevant evidence to the UK, where, in any case, it's already illegal to shoot that species with lead shot.

Current situation of lead (Pb) exposure in raptors and waterfowl in Japan and difference in sensitivity to in vitro lead exposure among avian species (2024)

Although lead (Pb) poisoning in wild birds has been considered a serious problem in Japan for over 30 years, there is little information about Pb exposure and its sources throughout Japan except for Hokkaido. Furthermore, to identify and effectively prioritize the conservation needs of highly vulnerable species, differences in sensitivity to Pb exposure among avian species need to be determined. Therefore, we investigated the current situation of Pb exposure in raptors (13 species, N = 82), waterfowl (eight species, N = 44) and crows (one species, N = 6) using concentration and isotope analysis. We employed blood or tissue samples collected in various Japanese facilities mainly in 2022 or 2023. We also carried out a comparative study of blood δ-ALAD sensitivity to in vitro Pb exposure using blood of nine avian species.

Pb concentrations in the blood or tissues displayed increased levels (>0.1 μg/g blood) in two raptors (2.4%), ten waterfowl (23%) and one crow (17%). Among them, poisoning levels (>0.6 μg/g blood) were found in one black kite and one common teal. The sources of Pb isotope ratios in ten blood samples with high Pb levels were determined as deriving from shot pellets (N = 9) or rifle bullets (N = 1). In the δ-ALAD study, red-crowned crane showed the highest sensitivity among the nine tested avian species and was followed in order by five Accipitriformes species (including white-tailed and Steller's sea eagle), Blakiston's fish owl, Muscovy duck and chicken, suggesting a genetically driven variance in susceptibility.

Further studies on contamination conditions and exposure sources are urgently needed to inform strict regulations on the usage of Pb ammunition. Furthermore, detailed examinations of δ-ALAD sensitivity, interspecific differences, and other factors involved in the variability in sensitivity to Pb are required to identify and prioritize highly sensitive species.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

This time it's 132 birds on the other side of the world, of which 10 had probably ingested lead shot, one of which had enough to have been poisoned. This is still what the GWCT, a source you acknowledge to be more expert than you, summarises as "little evidence". It is completely deranged for you to think you're representing any interest other than that of anti-shooting activists by pretending that one poisoned Japanese duck is relevant evidence to the UK, where, in any case, it's already illegal to shoot that species with lead shot.

It's just more science and perhaps there are older hunters in Japan raging at this research on Japanese forums saying that all the UK science is nowt to do with them also. And a new generation of Japanese hunters may well be thinking differently.

Back to the UK, there are many opinions out there, including those that believe that birds do not eat lead shot at all in the wild unless force fed, those that believe that the studies on force fed birds dying as a result of being force fed are not evidence of a lethal pathway and those that believe that field studies since 1870 finding evidence of lead shot ingestion by myriad species of birds worldwide are a conspiracy by antis against shooting. There are those that believe that the wetlands restrictions going back decades in the UK are not evidence based, and there are those that support the wetlands restrictions but do not believe the evidence for lead shot ingestion by birds outside wetlands despite those studies using the same methodology for the wetlands research.

What BASC has found over the last 5 years of the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry is that when people try steel shot in their own guns at our events and talk things through with BASC staff and ammo reps that all these concerns dissipate. Would you be interested in attending a BASC event?

 

[Apthorpe]

It's just more science and perhaps there are older hunters in Japan raging at this research on Japanese forums saying that all the UK science is nowt to do with them also. And a new generation of Japanese hunters may well be thinking differently.

Back to the UK, there are many opinions out there, including those that believe that birds do not eat lead shot at all in the wild unless force fed, those that believe that the studies on force fed birds dying as a result of being force fed are not evidence of a lethal pathway and those that believe that field studies since 1870 finding evidence of lead shot ingestion by myriad species of birds worldwide are a conspiracy by antis against shooting. There are those that believe that the wetlands restrictions going back decades in the UK are not evidence based, and there are those that support the wetlands restrictions but do not believe the evidence for lead shot ingestion by birds outside wetlands despite those studies using the same methodology for the wetlands research.

What BASC has found over the last 5 years of the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry is that when people try steel shot in their own guns at our events and talk things through with BASC staff and ammo reps that all these concerns dissipate. Would you be interested in attending a BASC event?

Yes. I skipped attending a previous one because the event, as advertised, consisted of firing something like 21 gram loads in size 8 or somesuch, which struck me as entirely useless for game shooting and grossly unrepresentative for the purposes of demonstrating anything useful. Do your current events involve proper ammunition, and how do they demonstrate the killing effect of these loads at 40yards or whatever distance? It does involve, I presume, irreversibly having the chokes bored out of my gun first, meaning that I'm swapping the likelihood of needing a new gun for steel, for the certainty of needing to buy a new gun either way.

 

[Ruger#1]

For all those getting into shooting or capable of adapting, get ready for all the stalking and shooting permissions becoming available when half the shooting community apparently down tools because of non toxic. I for one will be at the front of the queue!

There’s nothing like self interest to motivate support of further lead shot restrictions apparently

 

[Ruger#1]

What DEFRA and BASC agreed 8 years ago has no bearing and clearly the decision has changed or we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
I never said I agreed with the legislation

So the fact that DEFRA and BASC previously opposed further lead shot legislation in 2016 based on the same evidence available today is irrelevant
Oh and you don’t actually agree with the legislation
So having conceded defeat on the issue of further lead shot legislation you jump ship to the other side and despite not actually agreeing with the legislation you now post your support of it .
A new convert, CO will be pleased to see that the repitition of single figure lead shot ingestion rates seems to have convinced someone to convert to the anti lead shot lobby despite not agreeing with the legislation.
One thing is crystal clear ,the apathy of shooters in general is leading to the acceptance of a case for change when there is no scientific evidence to support that change . All those responsible for promoting such change for their own individual reasons are guilty of failing to protect the best interests of shooting sports ,the acceptance that the battle may be lost is no excuse.

 

[Ruger#1]

It's just more science and perhaps there are older hunters in Japan raging at this research on Japanese forums saying that all the UK science is nowt to do with them also. And a new generation of Japanese hunters may well be thinking differently.

Back to the UK, there are many opinions out there, including those that believe that birds do not eat lead shot at all in the wild unless force fed, those that believe that the studies on force fed birds dying as a result of being force fed are not evidence of a lethal pathway and those that believe that field studies since 1870 finding evidence of lead shot ingestion by myriad species of birds worldwide are a conspiracy by antis against shooting. There are those that believe that the wetlands restrictions going back decades in the UK are not evidence based, and there are those that support the wetlands restrictions but do not believe the evidence for lead shot ingestion by birds outside wetlands despite those studies using the same methodology for the wetlands research.

What BASC has found over the last 5 years of the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry is that when people try steel shot in their own guns at our events and talk things through with BASC staff and ammo reps that all these concerns dissipate. Would you be interested in attending a BASC event?

Unfortunately your failure to provide a link between minimal lead shot ingestion inland over non wetland areas and any impact on bird populations makes your quoted post irrelevant.
Perhaps rather than “older hunters raging at this research on Japanese forums saying that all the UK science is nowt to do with them “as you put it , there are Japanese and UK hunters of every age questioning the validity of the research carried out in Japan and UK as neither is able to show any link with lead shot ingestion on bird populations.
Your earlier post of March 2025 proudly boasting of BASC’s record in opposing lead shot legislation is slightly tarnished by the apparent U turn made and the information posted over the last year or so by yourself to influence that U turn’s acceptance.
Voice of shooting ? A poll of the membership would ascertain whether it continues to be even the voice of its members regarding the lead shot issue as without that support where does the policy of supporting the anti lead shot lobby stand ?
The issue surely is can BASC be trusted to stick to it’s policies and to what extent is faith in the organisation justified ?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Yes. I skipped attending a previous one because the event, as advertised, consisted of firing something like 21 gram loads in size 8 or somesuch, which struck me as entirely useless for game shooting and grossly unrepresentative for the purposes of demonstrating anything useful. Do your current events involve proper ammunition, and how do they demonstrate the killing effect of these loads at 40yards or whatever distance? It does involve, I presume, irreversibly having the chokes bored out of my gun first, meaning that I'm swapping the likelihood of needing a new gun for steel, for the certainty of needing to buy a new gun either way.

Perhaps then keep an eye out for events in your area on the BASC website or the regional emails you receive and get in touch with the team to find out more.

The next relevant events are on 13 June in Norfolk.

Patterning-Norfolk

13/06/2025 @ 10:00am - 2:00pm - BASC invites you to join them for a Patterning event at Mid Norfolk Shooting Ground on 13th June. The aim of this event is to ensure that you are well-informed and that your gun, choke, and cartridge choices are appropriate for your intended quarry. Upon arrival...

events.basc.org.uk

Try Sustainable Ammunition- Norfolk

13/06/2025 @ 10:00am - 2:00pm - BASC East invites members to join them for a Try Sustainable Ammunition event at Mid Norfolk Shooting Ground on 13 June. The aim of the day is to help you feel informed and confident as we transition away from lead shot. Upon arrival, you’ll be welcomed by a team...

events.basc.org.uk

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

You’ve had evidence, any amount of it from a variety of sources. You reject it every single time.


You’re going to follow the EU, they’ve been following this trajectory for around 40 years and they’re not going to reverse.
The UK is going to fall into step too, you have no choice if you want to keep the EU as a market.
What DEFRA and BASC agreed 8 years ago has no bearing and clearly the decision has changed or we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I never said I agreed with the legislative changes. I read the evidence and made my own choice. Which is just as well, we now have some fairly onerous restrictions on lead shotgun ammunition.
What I concede is that the argument shifted, most of us missed it, but REACH and WHO are dictating the terms, and the terms are hard core, no lead, no exceptions.

BASC, and many other national organisations, have indeed been battling lead restrictions for decades. We managed to stall them right up until the REACH challenge. That re-invigorated the official side, they were handed a straight flush and they went all in.
There is simply no counter to the argument that there is no safe level of lead contamination.
Forget birds, forget wolves, forget fishes, forget people licking lead crystal glasses. With that single WHO recommendation, backed up by REACH direction, we lost the campaign.
This is the new science. Its not new, just a different take on the old science
The argument boils down to a single question, since lead is dangerous to all living things, why should shooters be allowed to continue to unnecessarily broadcast hundreds of tons of the stuff in an easily ingested form over the landscape every year?

It is no longer up to them to provide evidence to support a ban, it is up to us to show why one shouldn’t be imposed.

They literally took the ground from under our feet, the onus was firmly placed on us to show that what we were doing was both necessary, harmless and could not be done with any other substance.
No one has managed that so far.
Maybe you can be the one.

What kind of views are Irish hunters sharing on social media about the draft EU regulations that would end lead shot use for hunting in Ireland within 3 years? Are they attacking the science and/or NARGC?

 

[Dunwaters]

So the fact that DEFRA and BASC previously opposed further lead shot legislation in 2016 based on the same evidence available today is irrelevant

From memory, they didn’t actually oppose restrictions, they just didn’t see a pressing need to introduce them at that time.
Now they do.

Oh and you don’t actually agree with the legislation
So having conceded defeat on the issue of further lead shot legislation you jump ship to the other side and despite not actually agreeing with the legislation you now post your support of it .

Correct, I don’t agree with this legislation and lots of other laws too, but that doesn’t give me the right to flout them with impunity.
Our restrictions , based on EU recommendations, are, I believe, seriously flawed. We are prohibited from using, carrying or being in possession of lead shotgun ammo on wet land areas as defined by the EU, and in other designated areas. This is clearly completely impractical and unenforceable. For example, if I load up the car and drive to the local clay ground, I cross 2 streams which are defined as wetlands, technically I’m committing an offence once I get within 200M of the bridges carrying my slab of 71/2’s.
On the practical side I’m planning to transition to non lead this year, I used both steel and lead last season. Steel doesn’t perform as well at distance in my experience, but it’s more than good enough for walked up, even in relatively light standard loads. Bismuth is expensive, I typically shoot less than 250 a year at game, it wont actually break the bank and may be part of the solution

A new convert, CO will be pleased to see that the repitition of single figure lead shot ingestion rates seems to have convinced someone to convert to the anti lead shot lobby despite not agreeing with the legislation.
One thing is crystal clear ,the apathy of shooters in general is leading to the acceptance of a case for change when there is no scientific evidence to support that change . All those responsible for promoting such change for their own individual reasons are guilty of failing to protect the best interests of shooting sports ,the acceptance that the battle may be lost is no excuse.

Sneer as much as you like, the restrictions are coming, for some of us they’re here. I choose to follow what I believe is the inevitable option and comply. I like my guns and love my shooting, I don’t want my pastime interrupted by a needless, avoidable spat with authority. I particularly don’t want to waste my time on a needless spat that I can’t win.
You may carry on your campaign of tilting at windmills for as long as you have the energy, it won’t change a thing.

 

[jimmer.13]

Quisling culture…… sign of the times sadly.
All shall be remembered on the wrong side of shooting history.

 

[Dunwaters]

What kind of views are Irish hunters sharing on social media about the draft EU regulations that would end lead shot use for hunting in Ireland within 3 years? Are they attacking the science and/or NARGC?

Enforcement is patchy.
I heard of one shoot in the West that was instructed to use non toxic, the Ranger turned up on the shoot day and checked. I personally got checked before my annual assault on the grouse, I had some steel and all was good.
Most of our shooting is walked up rough sport, it will take a while for a full transition because most of us don’t fire many shots over the course of a season, as lead cartridges are used and replaced the alternatives will roll out.
The big commercial shoots are sticking with lead, at least for the moment.
NPWS has beefed up its recruitment, no doubt this will result in more boots on the ground.
Hunter education has been very much neglected, a lot of people remain unaware of the restrictions despite them being on the books for 3 years? ( I think its 3, but they weren’t being enforced initially due to an industrial relations issue).
We have a history of lax enforcement, particularly by NPWS, unless and until that changes, the transition will be optional for most of us and of indefinite duration.

 

[Dunwaters]

Quisling culture…… sign of the times sadly.
All shall be remembered on the wrong side of shooting history.

No one will be remembered, we’ll just get on with it.
Unless of course someone like you is detected using lead 20 years from now, imitating those WW2 Japanese soldiers crawling out of the undergrowth decades after the war, still fighting a long lost cause…

 

[LuckyEddie]

One question re lead shot over the foreshore and wetlands.
Has there been any increase in the numbers of birds breeding?

After all lead shot has been banned in these areas for a number of years.

It would stand to reason that there should be a notable increase in the breeding population, does it not?

 

[Rewulf]

Meanwhile.... the volume of science on lead shot ingestion by birds continues to grow. This time it's Japan.

You really are clutching at straws with that one
The tiny sample size, very low lead levels in the birds tested, and the report blaming it on Japans very niche hunting and clay pigeon practices.
And the reason its so niche, is because Japan has some of the tightest gun control laws in the world !
And it sounds to me like they would like them tighter, by blaming lead shot for abnormal Pb levels in a few birds, in one of the most industrialised and overpopulated countries on the globe.

 

[Smellydog]

One question re lead shot over the foreshore and wetlands.
Has there been any increase in the numbers of birds breeding?

After all lead shot has been banned in these areas for a number of years.

It would stand to reason that there should be a notable increase in the breeding population, does it not?

When it was banned for waterfowl I was expecting millions of ducks and geese by now after all the hype!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

One question re lead shot over the foreshore and wetlands.
Has there been any increase in the numbers of birds breeding?

After all lead shot has been banned in these areas for a number of years.

It would stand to reason that there should be a notable increase in the breeding population, does it not?

In summary, based on a quick online search, the ban on lead ammunition for waterfowl hunting in North America has significantly reduced lead poisoning in waterfowl populations, saving an estimated 1.4 million ducks annually. This ban, implemented in 1991, led to a 50% reduction in lead ingestion by waterfowl. How that translates into increased numbers of birds breeding etc, I don't know if that has been studied as yet. As for UK, the starting point will be studies detecting reduced levels of lead shot ingestion in birds areas where there is high compliance with the lead shot rules, for example this recent study of geese on Islay in Scotland https://pureadmin.uhi.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/38784090/120_Ibis_Geese_on_Islay_Pb_shot.pdf

 

[LuckyEddie]

In summary, based on a quick online search, the ban on lead ammunition for waterfowl hunting in North America has significantly reduced lead poisoning in waterfowl populations, saving an estimated 1.4 million ducks annually. This ban, implemented in 1991, led to a 50% reduction in lead ingestion by waterfowl. How that translates into increased numbers of birds breeding etc, I don't know if that has been studied as yet. As for UK, the starting point will be studies detecting reduced levels of lead shot ingestion in birds areas where there is high compliance with the lead shot rules, for example this recent study of geese on Islay in Scotland https://pureadmin.uhi.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/38784090/120_Ibis_Geese_on_Islay_Pb_shot.pdf

You say saving.

Where is the corresponding increase in population?

 

[Apthorpe]

Perhaps then keep an eye out for events in your area on the BASC website or the regional emails you receive and get in touch with the team to find out more.

The next relevant events are on 13 June in Norfolk.

Patterning-Norfolk

13/06/2025 @ 10:00am - 2:00pm - BASC invites you to join them for a Patterning event at Mid Norfolk Shooting Ground on 13th June. The aim of this event is to ensure that you are well-informed and that your gun, choke, and cartridge choices are appropriate for your intended quarry. Upon arrival...

events.basc.org.uk

Try Sustainable Ammunition- Norfolk

13/06/2025 @ 10:00am - 2:00pm - BASC East invites members to join them for a Try Sustainable Ammunition event at Mid Norfolk Shooting Ground on 13 June. The aim of the day is to help you feel informed and confident as we transition away from lead shot. Upon arrival, you’ll be welcomed by a team...

events.basc.org.uk

Thank you for this. Aside from the fact that it’s a good six hour round trip away, the details in your link make plain that lead “alternatives” are all unsuitable for my guns. It doesn’t even make clear what the “alternatives” are, nor whether they are actually an alternative or a functionally-inferior substitute. How does this make “all these concerns dissipate”? Actually, all it has done is increase them.

Incidentally, I don’t think many rational people are going to spend an entire day off work and spend a couple of hundred quid on spec without knowing what they're going to be testing, but a pleasant day out for those with time on their hands.

 

[Bowland blades]

BASC continues to encourage a voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting and this is underpinned by the evidence of lead shot ingestion by birds in all habitats as assessed by the GWCT, and that evidence continues to grow monthly worldwide.

This is no longer only about wetlands whether coastal or inland (but be mindful that in Scotland it is unlawful to use lead shot over wetlands including foreshore, streams, rivers, ponds, marshes, wet fields, and moorlands with visible standing water) it is about growing awareness and understanding that birds will pick up lead shot mistaking it for grit or seeds in every habitat and suffer lethal and sub-lethal impacts as a result.

Moving away from lead shot for live quarry shooting is about due consideration for animal welfare and conservation and awareness and understanding of this problem has been growing in the shooting community over the last five years.

Worldwide, hunters have been moving away from lead shot for live quarry shooting and that includes mainland Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, NZ and so on - what is happening in the UK is not unique and pointing fingers at BASC is missing the bigger picture.

Some further details on how and whom can shoot lead in other nations globally . If BASC efforts are to be measured .
Also certain nations have had a lead ban then later over - ruled it !
Now, I pretty much shoot every deer, duck etc with copper ( i started using steel on everything with wings when lead finished in wildfowling) I don't mind using it one bit , though when we get to lead on correctly designed shooting grounds both clay and target with rifles, Rimfire, airgun and similar ammo and such. The venison dealers require that non-tox is used anyhow

 

[jimmer.13]

No one will be remembered, we’ll just get on with it.
Unless of course someone like you is detected using lead 20 years from now, imitating those WW2 Japanese soldiers crawling out of the undergrowth decades after the war, still fighting a long lost cause…

Banzai