An huge own goal by the Shooting Organizations - the lead farce

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Rewulf said:
Tell me Conor, in your opinion, do you believe there is ANY conspiracy against shooting (in any form) ?
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At one time, in the 1970s and maybe still so, the part of the Home Office that dealt with controls on firearms was also as part of its remit tasked with emergency planning in case of nuclear attack or other national wide event that caused in its aftermath a massive breakdown in civil order. And their mind set is that the earlier a reduction in wide ownership of firearms can be curtailed the better.

I am old enough and lucky enough to have enjoyed my late mother's recollections of her shooting sport. She told me quite categorically that when WWII broke out that rifles held by civilians on Firearm Certificates had to be handed in to police "for the duration". And she always said that in 1945 she never got the same rifle back, held by her on her own 1937 issued FAC, that she surrendered in 1940.

Those SD members who are blessed to be Irish will also recount how they lost their pistols and full-bore rifles during what the Dail termed "the emergency". So anyone who does not think that there are elements in any government in its civil service who would happily work with others to seek to make their task easier and use any device to thus reduce firearms in the hands of the general public long before such a national catastrophic event is naive. Or a fool.
 
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The reassurance of politicians or would be politicians doesn’t stretch too far these days , and quite rightly so.
 
As a matter of interest, are there any published figures on the number of people who have died of lead ingestion, caused in the main by eating shot animals and birds?
 
old keeper said:
As a matter of interest, are there any published figures on the number of people who have died of lead ingestion, caused in the main by eating shot animals and birds?
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I am not aware of any case where someone died from lead poisoning as a result of eating game meat containing lead. However, there are concerns about the potential sub-lethal impacts on humans, particularly for pregnant women and children frequently eating lead shot game and the FSA has issued advice on this.

www.food.gov.uk

Lead-shot game

Consuming lead is harmful, health experts advise to minimise lead consumption as much as possible. Anyone who eats lead-shot game should be aware of the risks posed by consuming large amounts of lead, especially children and pregnant women.
www.food.gov.uk www.food.gov.uk

The lethality issue is birds dying from eating lead shot mistaking it as seed or grit, for which there is lots of evidence.
 
Conor O'Gorman said:
The lethality issue is birds dying from eating lead shot mistaking it as seed or grit, for which there is lots of evidence.
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But I suppose none of these 'issues' concern the lethality of birds being shot with lead ?
Conor O'Gorman said:
I am not aware of any case where someone died from lead poisoning as a result of eating game meat containing lead. However, there are concerns about the potential sub-lethal impacts on humans, particularly for pregnant women and children frequently eating lead shot game and the FSA has issued advice on this.
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Of which I presume there is lots of evidence ?
 
It would interest me how to tell if a bird has died of lead poisoning. Several wander around with some pellets in their body structure and don't die.
The same with animals, I've shot deer, foxes, hares etc with a rifle that had either shot or in some cases a lead bullet in them. A friend wanders round with many lead pellets in his legs, and I may have lead residue in a couple of places, why aren't we dead. I have also swallowed pellets in meat, should I give up and die to please science.
 
A friend got shot with an air gun by his brother when the two lads were shooting rats around their dad's smallholding, Kevin has had the pellet lodged in his arm for the last 38 years, it was deemed too risky to remove it by the surgeon at the time.... he's looking remarkably well.
Edit; It was a .22 as well, not a piffling little .177
 
Ratel said:
It would interest me how to tell if a bird has died of lead poisoning. Several wander around with some pellets in their body structure and don't die.
The same with animals, I've shot deer, foxes, hares etc with a rifle that had either shot or in some cases a lead bullet in them. A friend wanders round with many lead pellets in his legs, and I may have lead residue in a couple of places, why aren't we dead. I have also swallowed pellets in meat, should I give up and die to please science.
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The evidence is for lead shot ingested not embedded lead shot. When lead shot is eaten by birds mistaking it for seed or grit then that lead shot gets eroded in the gizzard and is metabolised into toxic lead salts that are absorbed into blood and later deposited in the kidneys, liver, bones etc. with resulting ill effects. A single pellet may kill some birds, for others it's a few pellets. Varies from species to species.

As for yourself swallowing a few lead pellets in meat, I think you know from your lived experience that you did not die from that.
 
Bo Diddley said:
A friend got shot with an air gun by his brother when the two lads were shooting rats around their dad's smallholding, Kevin has had the pellet lodged in his arm for the last 38 years, it was deemed too risky to remove it by the surgeon at the time.... he's looking remarkably well.
Edit; It was a .22 as well, not a piffling little .177
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Not an issue as far as I know. Even the HSE did not discuss embedded lead ammunition in humans in its review of the use of lead ammunition. As explained the key issue is lead shot ingestion by birds. No amount of whataboutery will successfully deflect from that evidence.
 
Conor O'Gorman said:
The evidence is for lead shot ingested not embedded lead shot. When lead shot is eaten by birds mistaking it for seed or grit then that lead shot gets eroded in the gizzard and is metabolised into toxic lead salts that are absorbed into blood and later deposited in the kidneys, liver, bones etc. with resulting ill effects. A single pellet may kill some birds, for others it's a few pellets. Varies from species to species.

As for yourself swallowing a few lead pellets in meat, I think you know from your lived experience that you did not die from that.
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Ok Conor, but if lead pellets penetrate a bird why should they not enter the blood stream and cause the same problems. I know I didn't die from eating.a few lead pellets, I also know that my pal hasn't died from lead pellets entering his body and blood. I obviously didn't die from being shot either, so why is it that birds appear to die from lead salts ingested but not directly deposited in their body and blood
 
This is so tedious....
The metal lead in metallic form is very inert.
I have dug airgun pellets out of rabbits, pigeons and squirrels that have been there a long time and they were perfectly fine.
In some instances it is clear that the body has contained the pellet by surrounding it in thick tissue.

We've been had.

The harlot has taken our money and bedded not only us but them that hate us too!
 
Conor O'Gorman said:
Incorrect, lots of evidence. I can start to give summaries of some of the evidence bird species by species if you wish? This may help others as well.
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Please do as you used the analogy of comparing deaths from lead consumption to that of cats killing wild birds.
Surmised and possibly biased depending on who is providing said evidence.
We read and hear about it in all manner of absolute facts given by the scientists, only then to find said scientists were cherry picked because they supported an agenda.
Their peers have been lambasted and even threatened should they question certain findings or submit a different conclusion.
Have any of the shooting organisations commissioned their own scientists and studies to compare the findings,or do we just have to rely on a single group?
Probably all been asked before.
Reading what’s been published so far it doesn’t seem to demonstrate the robustness or the diligence compared to study and findings of secondary poisoning by rodenticides.
 
Ratel said:
Ok Conor, but if lead pellets penetrate a bird why should they not enter the blood stream and cause the same problems. I know I didn't die from eating.a few lead pellets, I also know that my pal hasn't died from lead pellets entering his body and blood. I obviously didn't die from being shot either, so why is it that birds appear to die from lead salts ingested but not directly deposited in their body and blood
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There has not been much research on embedded lead shot but here is one on eider duck


The evidence is on ingested lead shot and how it interacts in the gizzard producing those lead salts etc. and thus metabolised.
 
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